OFFICIAL: Biblical/Theology Discussion thread

[Bleed S & G]

We've covered this ground before. And there are those here who refuse to see past the Iranian President's statements. He has to appeal to his political base and say the right things like any politician.
Does he really believe every thing he says?
Can we really believe every thing he says when he has a very political history?
Clearly, the Iranians want nukes. But, even more they want recognition as a political and military power in the Middle East. They see it as their history, their heritage.
They have to know that any legitimate threat to Israel would result in Israel turning most of Iran into a smoldering ruin.
The Iranians are not suicidal!
We must examine the larger implications of the Iranian President's speeches.
Don't be simplistic in taking every word he utters as a plan!
Or fact.

"We are telling our people that the past era has ended and will not return," Islam Shahawan, a spokesman for Hamas' militia, told Hamas radio. "The era of justice and Islamic rule have arrived."

Honestly, not even religiously at this point.. i'm too young to know how it was with the cold war.. is this our generations cold war or will this be something bigger or smaller? How many radicals are actually out there?

Link to quote

 

[Bleed S & G]

"The international row over Salman Rushdie's knighthood escalated after Islamic extremists placed a ?80,000 bounty on the writer's head...

"Salman Rushdie has turned into a hated corpse which cannot be resurrected by any action," Mohammad Reza Bahonar, first deputy speaker of Iran's parliament, said in an address to the house.

"The action by the British queen in knighting Salman Rushdie, the apostate, is an unwise one," he said, to loud cheers from MPs.

"The British monarch lives under this illusion that Britain is still a 19th century superpower and that bestowing titles is something still deemed important."

"This is an occasion for the world's 1.5billion Muslims to look at the seriousness of this decision," said Mohammed Ijaz ul-Haq, Pakistan's religious affairs minister.

"The West is accusing Muslims of extremism and terrorism," he told his country's parliament.

"If someone exploded a bomb on his body he would be right to do so, unless the British government apologises and withdraws the 'sir' title."

Iranian MP Mehdi Kuchakzadeh declared: "Rushdie died the moment the late Imam (Khomeini) issued the fatwa.

"It would be a hollow dream for the Queen of England to think that with such a move she could revive one of her mercenaries to oppose Islam. Granting a knighthood to Salman Rushdie will only lead to further hatred towards Britain."

Effigies of Rushdie and the Queen
LINK

Has anyone read the book? I've heard its a tough read but the theory is simple: Suggests the prophet was fooled by the devil, not enlightened by God as one of the comments there reads: "Either way the idea which is revolutionary, is that Islam needs to be theologically reviewed, as subdugation of the individual to a book, leads to evil."

 

[PlanetFrnd]

Helpful links:

The Satanic Verses (novel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Satanic Verses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The "Satanic Verses"

I haven't read the book, though it's safe to say that, whereas the premise for anger toward the book is simple in that anything that suggests the Prophet's revelation of the Koran is not the infallible is blasphemous, the book is a much more complicated and layered critique of the history, religion and culture in which it places itself.

 

[MaxBuck]

"Salman Rushdie has turned into a hated corpse which cannot be resurrected by any action," Mohammad Reza Bahonar, first deputy speaker of Iran's parliament, said in an address to the house.

"The action by the British queen in knighting Salman Rushdie, the apostate, is an unwise one," he said, to loud cheers from MPs.

"The British monarch lives under this illusion that Britain is still a 19th century superpower and that bestowing titles is something still deemed important."

If titles are unimportant, why does this fuckwit have his panties in such a bunch? Apparently the British monarch does not live under an "illusion," since the Persian pus-sacs are so exercised about this honor.

 

[Bleed S & G]

If titles are unimportant, why does this fuckwit have his panties in such a bunch? Apparently the British monarch does not live under an "illusion," since the Persian pus-sacs are so exercised about this honor.

yeah they say the title is worthless but then get so worked up over it.. kind of like how he says the west is making accusations of terroism and exterism and then says if someone straps a bomb to their body they are justified something dosen't make sense.. they got alot of hate built up inside

 

[Bleed S & G]

Islam has many more signs for the end of times.. the Imam comes and reigns for 7 years with peace and world-wide Islam rule.. then dies and only Jesus 'the prophet' can kill the 'anti-Christ' in Islam





Qiyamah (end of times) will come when... ​

Hadhrat Abu Musa Ash'ari (R.A.) narrates that Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhii Wassallam) said, "Qiyamah will come...

• * When it will be regarded as a shame to act on Quranic injunctions.
  * When untrustworthy people will be regarded as trustworthy and the trustworthy will be regarded as untrustworthy.
  * When it will be hot in winter (and vice versa).
  * When the length of days is stretched, i.e. a journey of a few days is covered in a matter of hours.
  * When orators and lecturers lie openly.
  * When people dispute over petty issues.
  * When women with children come displeased on account of them bearing offspring, and barren women remain happy on account of having no responsibility of offspring.
  * When oppression, jealousy, and greed become the order of the day.
  * When people blatantly follow their passions and whims.
  * When lies prevail over the truth.
  * When violence, bloodshed and anarchy become common.
  * When immorality overtakes shamelessness and is perpetrated publicly.
  * When legislation matters pertaining to Deen is handed over to the worst elements of the Ummat, and if people accept them and are satisfied with their findings, then such persons will not smell the fragrance of Jannat.
  * When the offspring become a cause of grief and anger (for their parents).

The following is part of a lengthy Hadith narrated by Hadhrat Abdullah Ibn Mas'ood (R.A.) when he inquired from Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) about the Signs of Qiyamah.

• * Music and musical instruments will be found in every home.
  * People will indulge in homosexuality.
  * There will be an abundance of illegitimate children.
  * There will be an abundance of critics, tale-carriers, back- biters and taunters in society.
  * People will establish ties with strangers and sever relations with their near and dear ones.
  * Hypocrites will be in control of the affairs of the community and evil, immoral people will be at the helm of business establishments.
  * The Masjid will be decorated, but the hearts of the people will be devoid of guidance.
  * The courtyards of Masjids will be built beautifully and high mimbars (pulpits) will be erected.
  * Gangsters and evil people will prevail.
  * Various wines will be consumed excessively.
  
  
  
  The Killing of Dajjal (anti-Christ) and the Victory of the Muslims
  After the completion of Fajr Salaat (congregational dawn prayers), Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will open the door behind him where Dajjal accompanied by 70,000 Yahudis (Jews) will be. He will indicate with his hand to move away between him (Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)) and Dajjal. Dajjal will then see Hadhrat Isa (A.S.). At that time every Kafir on whom the breath of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will reach, will die. His breath will reach up to the distance of his eyesight. The Muslims will then come down from the mountains and break loose on the army of Dajjal. There will be war, Dajjal will retreat, and Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will pursue Dajjal. Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will have two flexible swords and one shield with him and with these he will kill Dajjal at the Gate of Hudd. He willl show the Muslims the blood of Dajjal which will get on his shield. Eventually the Yahudis will be selected and killed. The swine will be killed and the cross broken. People will revert to Islam. Wars will end, and people will return to their respective countries. One Jamaat (group) of Muslims will remain in his service and companionship.
  Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will go to Fajr Rawha and perform Haj or Umrah (or both) from there. He will also go to the grave of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) and present his greetings and Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) will reply. People will live comfortable lives. The wall of Yajooj and Majooj (Gog and Magog) will then break.
  
  
  
  

 

[Bleed S & G]

link for above info: Welcome to Islam.tc Ahlus Sunnah Portal

 

[Bleed S & G]

Well, im hoping someone here is Muslim and can shed some light on this..

The end of times battles will occur between the Muslims and the people of Gog and Magog who will consist of the bad Jews (Zionists today as we call them), and the Polytheists from the Trinitarian Christians who worship Jesus and the Holy Spirit beside Allah Almighty, and the idol worshipers from the Hindus and the Far Eastern Orientals.

Allah Almighty predicted that the Muslims will fight the People of Gog and Magog during the End of Times:

"Until the Gog and Magog (people) Are let through (their barrier), And they swiftly swarm From every hill. Then will the True Promise Draw nigh (of fulfilment): Then behold! the eyes Of the Unbelievers will Fixedly stare in horror: 'Ah! Woe to us! we were indeed Heedless of this; nay; we Truly did wrong!' (The Noble Quran, 21:96-97)"

The End of Times Battles in Islam.

Looks like their prophices directly pit them against Christians and Jews.. this looks to be mainstream and not exteremism.. so what say you? do all true-muslims not like jews or christians since they have been told by god himself the anti-christ and us will battle together against them?

 

[t_BuckeyeScott]

Well, im hoping someone here is Muslim and can shed some light on this..

The end of times battles will occur between the Muslims and the people of Gog and Magog who will consist of the bad Jews (Zionists today as we call them), and the Polytheists from the Trinitarian Christians who worship Jesus and the Holy Spirit beside Allah Almighty, and the idol worshipers from the Hindus and the Far Eastern Orientals.

Allah Almighty predicted that the Muslims will fight the People of Gog and Magog during the End of Times:

"Until the Gog and Magog (people) Are let through (their barrier), And they swiftly swarm From every hill. Then will the True Promise Draw nigh (of fulfilment): Then behold! the eyes Of the Unbelievers will Fixedly stare in horror: 'Ah! Woe to us! we were indeed Heedless of this; nay; we Truly did wrong!' (The Noble Quran, 21:96-97)"

The End of Times Battles in Islam.

Looks like their prophices directly pit them against Christians and Jews.. this looks to be mainstream and not exteremism.. so what say you? do all true-muslims not like jews or christians since they have been told by god himself the anti-christ and us will battle together against them?

Another interesting parallel to the Bible. Ezekiel 38 says that Gog and Magog are going to be destroyed by God after coming against Israel.

 

[Bleed S & G]

Another interesting parallel to the Bible. Ezekiel 38 says that Gog and Magog are going to be destroyed by God after coming against Israel.

I wouldnt be surprised by parallel's between the too.. but yeah the muslims think they're chosen, jews think they're chosen, and chrisitans think they got the right messiah

 

[buckeyegrad]

The parallels between Islamic and Jewish/Christian conceptions of the ends times are not surprising. Not only did Mohamed borrow a lot of ideas from the other two, but the development of the Shi'a branch of Islam was particularly influenced.

Shi'a Islam began to develop in Persia at the same time that a strong Jewish community focused on the messiah and end times was coming to force in the region under the leadership of Abu Isa and several other Jewish "prophets". The two movements likely influenced each other, especially in the understanding of the apocalypse.

 

[Bleed S & G]

The parallels between Islamic and Jewish/Christian conceptions of the ends times are not surprising. Not only did Mohamed borrow a lot of ideas from the other two, but the development of the Shi'a branch of Islam was particularly influenced.

Shi'a Islam began to develop in Persia at the same time that a strong Jewish community focused on the messiah and end times was coming to force in the region under the leadership of Abu Isa and several other Jewish "prophets". The two movements likely influenced each other, especially in the understanding of the apocalypse.

The way they parell is somewhat intriguing though:

Muslims believe they will bring about a world-wide system of peace with the return of the Imam, who will reign for 7 years, die and hand over the reigns to Jesus (the prophet)

Christians believe a world wide system is the system of the beast, and as such the anti-christ will rise from it. When the anti-christ is revealed.. the period of false peace will end until the return of Christ

 

[buckeyegrad]

The way they parell is somewhat intriguing though:

Muslims believe they will bring about a world-wide system of peace with the return of the Imam, who will reign for 7 years, die and hand over the reigns to Jesus (the prophet)

Christians believe a world wide system is the system of the beast, and as such the anti-christ will rise from it. When the anti-christ is revealed.. the period of false peace will end until the return of Christ

Oh, I agree. I must admit that my blood ran cold the first time I heard the Islamic belief of the Imam reigning over the world for 7 years when considering the prophesies in Daniel.

 

[Bleed S & G]

Oh, I agree. I must admit that my blood ran cold the first time I heard the Islamic belief of the Imam reigning over the world for 7 years when considering the prophesies in Daniel.

I've asked this question before, in revelation is babylon Iraq or the United States? Geographically or symbolically babylon?

 

[buckeyegrad]

I've asked this question before, in revelation is babylon Iraq or the United States? Geographically or symbolically babylon?

Well, it's been interpreted to mean several different things and to be honest I don't know which is correct.

One possibility is it will be the original Babylon in Iraq rebuilt and from there the beast will set up his reign. Interestingly, Saddam was set on rebuilding Babylon, the current government in Iraq seeks to continue his project, and Ahmadinajad has stated that he would like to over see the reconstruction of the city as well.

Another possibility is that Babylon is Rome, which does make some sense considering many Jews in the first century when Revelation was written saw and referred to Rome as the new Babylon. The seven hills that surround Rome and that are mentioned in Revelation are one possible indication of what it represents. Hence the preterists favor this interpretation. Those who wish to declare the Vatican the seat of the beast also favor this interpretation.

Of course, Babylon could also be simply a symbol of the world government of the beast and the actual location is irrelevant. I probably favor this one the most as if you look at the entire description you also see the harlot sitting upon the beast. Drawing upon Old Testament prophesy and poetry, a harlot typically represented the apostate religion of ancient Israel. Hence, I believe the harlot represents those who claim the Christian title, but which do not hold Jesus as the resurrected messiah. They in turn will hold an alliance and be supported by the one-world government of the beast, which is symbolized by Babylon.

As for the United States, I really don't consider this one seriously. Those who make the comparison have to contort the text from its original context to such a degree that using such similar arguments the text could say anything. This is not to say that the United States could not be part of Babylon in the future (after all, it could be part of the one-world government), but to say that the Revelation given to John, who was then to share it with seven churches in 1st century Asia Minor, was specifically discussing the United States is rather absurd from my perspective.