OFFICIAL: Biblical/Theology Discussion thread

[Cornerback6]

Interesting quote worth tossing in this thread,

"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him." -Voltaire

I think, even for a non-believer...this one is hard to argue. Thoughts?

I would elaborate right now but I'm painfully tired.

 

[Bleed S & G]

For me, the existence of ghosts (which I believe in as having had their presence demonstrated to my satisfaction) is evidence of a soul. What's your reason?

Ghosts and the like show that there is a spirtual world out there, to me.. which in turn does provide some proof of the soul to me.

Interstingly enough.. I don't like the guy to much but he used to date an ex's mom..

Nature of God

Soul Proof

Like I said, I got a creepy vibe from the dude.. but he offers some insight

Im providing these links for BKB and anyone else interested, I really don't value what he has to say and as such, didn't read these pages except for the first few paragraphs

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Thanks for the links.. checkin them out now.

Edit: Had a look. Disappointed that the guy didn't actually make any offers of proof in his writing titled "soul proof" He asserts as authorative the conclusory remarks of a Dr. Wilder Penfield:

I came to take seriously, even to believe, that the consciousness of man, the mind, is NOT something to be reduced to brain mechanism. . . Where did the mind—call it the spirit if you like—come from? Who can say? It exists.”

without any proper analysis or support. Certainly not faulting you Bleed S&G, just giving my impressions on his assertions and saying I wish he had been more... analytical, I guess. Regardless, thanks for the link. Worth the read, although as I imply, not a particularly strong argument being made (at least in terms of the bold heading he chose.)

 

[Bleed S & G]

Thanks for the links.. checkin them out now.

Edit: Had a look. Disappointed that the guy didn't actually make any offers of proof in his writing titled "soul proof" He asserts as authorative the conclusory remarks of a Dr. Wilder Penfield:



without any proper analysis or support. Certainly not faulting you Bleed S&G, just giving my impressions on his assertions and saying I wish he had been more... analytical, I guess. Regardless, thanks for the link. Worth the read, although as I imply, not a particularly strong argument being made (at least in terms of the bold heading he chose.)

dude is a control freak IMO lol take whatever he says and verify it through other sources.. but yeah I could come up with a much better argument after spending some time on google than he does with his title of "dr"

 

[lvbuckeye]

we will ALL know the answer to this one one day soon. be patient. you shouldn't have to wait more than 50 years or so, and most likely much less...

 

[buckeyegrad]

I just had a thought.... rather than conjecture about if there is a God or not... and trying to figure out what is his nature or what is pleasing to him... wouldn't it benefit us to figure out if we have souls first? I mean, we are certainly more accessible than is God for purposes of "hands on" analysis.

Can any one put forth any evidence supporting the notion that they have a soul? That they don't? For me, the existence of ghosts (which I believe in as having had their presence demonstrated to my satisfaction) is evidence of a soul. What's your reason?

What type of evidence are you seeking? As for the evidence you give, I would argue that you have witnessed demons, not the ghosts of departed souls. As such, your evidence suggests a spiritual aspect to reality, which certainly opens the door for the possibility of souls, but doesn't prove it conclusively in itself.

 

[Bleed S & G]

and most likely much less...

you don't think the holy ghost will lay the path before you? i mean the entire point of the whole damn thing is just like the flood, weed evil out of the world. my only concern would be.. what is the US' role in revelation? Are we 'babylon', the material world, or is babylon iran/iraq the historical babylon.. because you know babylon is gonna get rocked pretty hard.

 

[PlanetFrnd]

I just had a thought.... rather than conjecture about if there is a God or not... and trying to figure out what is his nature or what is pleasing to him... wouldn't it benefit us to figure out if we have souls first? I mean, we are certainly more accessible than is God for purposes of "hands on" analysis

Can any one put forth any evidence supporting the notion that they have a soul? That they don't? For me, the existence of ghosts (which I believe in as having had their presence demonstrated to my satisfaction) is evidence of a soul. What's your reason?

I've always had the notion that people's "souls" were fairly easy to detect. I've always though of my soul is the combination of my conscience, passions and thoughts. It's what makes me love my family (even when they're crazy),my friends, music and eating - its what makes me myself. I wasn't raised in a very religious atmosphere, but its easy to imagine that - if something lives on beyond your body - it would be all those things that create your personality. Just my opinion, but a soul seems to be the easiest thing to imagine of all of the various religious teachings.

you don't think the holy ghost will lay the path before you? i mean the entire point of the whole damn thing is just like the flood, weed evil out of the world. my only concern would be.. what is the US' role in revelation? Are we 'babylon', the material world, or is babylon iran/iraq the historical babylon.. because you know babylon is gonna get rocked pretty hard.

Depends on who you ask, doesn't it? The fact that the Revelation of John is included in the Cannon is one of the most interesting things to me. You have the Gospels to bear witness, you have the Epistles for historical/instructional purposes, but Revelation? It's the only book that takes some of the OT imagery and runs wild with it.

I like to imagine Babylon as a team with jersey numbers ranging from 144,001 - infinity.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

What type of evidence are you seeking? As for the evidence you give, I would argue that you have witnessed demons, not the ghosts of departed souls. As such, your evidence suggests a spiritual aspect to reality, which certainly opens the door for the possibility of souls, but doesn't prove it conclusively in itself.

Demons, eh? I'm sure my mom is getting a good laugh out of that one. But, whatever... the point isn't whether it's a demon or not, or even if what I think I witnessed was real or not. It was simply me offering why I believe I have reason to think we have a soul - I don't care about "proof" so much, as I'm not stupid enough to think I can actually prove anything anyway. I should also mention, like BusNative mentions, when I think about myself introspectively, I tend to think I have a soul as well. Some sort of "I am not my body" realization. I should mention, I find it incredibly odd you'd leave room for demons to manipulate the physical world but not give the "good" side of a spiritual form (say, an angel) any room to move in the world.... At least not where I'm at issue.. as you seem willing to believe in ghosts like Gabriel talking to various Biblical personalities.

In any case, I can't understand how or why you'd seemingly balk at the concept of soul, or offer no support of one as it relates to your existence, when it seems the very existence of a soul is important for this whole getting in to the kindom of heaven thing you purport to believe in. What's the use in any concept of an afterlife if we are just our bodies? (assuming no other alternative - if there is one, feel free to identify.) Or are you going to argue that our physical bodies go with us to the afterlife? Whether or not there is a God is a useless concern if we have no hope of ever surviving this life anyway.

 

[jwinslow]

I don't think he's arguing against souls, merely addressing your search for 'evidence'

Can any one put forth any evidence supporting the notion that they have a soul? That they don't? For me, the existence of ghosts (which I believe in as having had their presence demonstrated to my satisfaction) is evidence of a soul. What's your reason?

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I don't think he's arguing against souls, merely addressing your search for 'evidence'

Well, then, throw whatever terms in there you need, Bgrad. What I want to know is what's everyone's rationale for thinking they even have a soul.

 

[BayBuck]

Well, then, throw whatever terms in there you need, Bgrad. What I want to know is what's everyone's rationale for thinking they even have a soul.

Check your "custom user title". :)

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Check your "custom user title". :)

Works for me.

 

[lvbuckeye]

you don't think the holy ghost will lay the path before you? i mean the entire point of the whole damn thing is just like the flood, weed evil out of the world. my only concern would be.. what is the US' role in revelation? Are we 'babylon', the material world, or is babylon iran/iraq the historical babylon.. because you know babylon is gonna get rocked pretty hard.

Babylon is symbolic of world empires. so, in that sense, yes. we are Babylon. however, Revelation is a story twice told, once from a political, and once from a religious perspective.

 

[PlanetFrnd]

Babylon is symbolic of world empires. so, in that sense, yes. we are Babylon. however, Revelation is a story twice told, once from a political, and once from a religious perspective.

I just read this for a second time, and realized what a good point this is: the imagery in Revelation is largely borrowed from Daniel and other prophetic books, so is, in that sense, religious, but many have argued that the imagery is used to convey a political message that would have been obvious to certain people at that time.

Many times, especially since people try to relate Biblical material to modern times, the temporal political aspect of the Bible gets lost. I think its important to remember that things like Paul's letters, Revelation and other parts of the Bible were written by people of that time FOR people of that time. Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious, but, from what I've observed, the intent of the many authors of the Bible gets dramatically misunderstood as people today try to apply the Bible to our day-to-day lives.

The below is a link to a book that does a very good job at arguing this point with regards to Paul.

Reinventing Paul - John Gager