Notre Dame Fighting Irish (official thread of bowl failures)

[hobbs]

And three of them were IN SEASON, righhhht? Talk all you want about depth charts, but an in-season mass exodus is very unusual, and often linked to bigger problems.

Not to mention that Weis has already failed miserably with 4 of his first marquee recruits. Either he cannot identify talent, or develop KIDS, or both. He's not in the NFL deploying polished adults. (an impact which appears to be greatly overrated, even before Brady got his new toys).

Not really sure how big of a story the in season aspect of the transfers are since it's a known rule that if you transfer out before the 12th day you can retain a full year of eligibility. Jones and Rueland both left before the 12th day and so they preserve a year of academic eligibility. Frazer left after spring practice.

Makes sense to me.

I would hardly call that class a miserable failure since the departed players were:

4th string QB.
3rd string QB.
3rd string TE.
3rd string OG.

Those were backups to the backsups and that's the trap that you're going to get caught in when you bring in a big class with several front line guys who play the same position. When those guys lose out in competition they have guys in their class ahead of them and more often than not, top guys coming in behind them.

 

[jwinslow]

Makes sense to me.

Jones wanted to leave in the offseason, where he could have prepared with another team, like Tennessee. We both know why he ended up staying.

Ohio State is loaded with talent at almost every position (very few in the 2-deep are graduating this year), yet I don't see players fleeing left and right.
OTOH, Notre Dame can't seem to get consistent play from many positions, yet players are running from the program.

I would hardly call that class a miserable failure since the departed players were

Carufel started three weeks ago. Either the coaches have no idea what they're doing, the OL talent Charlie has brought in is doing poorly, or the kid can play. I'd say it's a bit of all three.

It's a bit early to write off the entire class, but it's remarkable how little of Charlie's talent is stepping up. Youngsters at other programs step up all the time, yet Charlie brings in two straight stellar classes and can't seem to field a half decent squad.

BTW, a 5th name to keep near the list of those four busts (possibly charlie-induced) is Sam Young, who seems to be taking steps backward under Weis' staff.

 

[SNIPER26]

Not really sure how big of a story the in season aspect of the transfers are since it's a known rule that if you transfer out before the 12th day you can retain a full year of eligibility. Jones and Rueland both left before the 12th day and so they preserve a year of academic eligibility. Frazer left after spring practice.

Makes sense to me.

I would hardly call that class a miserable failure since the departed players were:

4th string QB.
3rd string QB.
3rd string TE.
3rd string OG.

Those were backups to the backsups and that's the trap that you're going to get caught in when you bring in a big class with several front line guys who play the same position. When those guys lose out in competition they have guys in their class ahead of them and more often than not, top guys coming in behind them.

Freshmen tend to be backups, unless they're named Adrian Peterson. Oh and just because you locked up Rudolph and Fauria wouldn't mean they'd step in and play ahead of other talented players. Great, Rudolph has 5 stars. Whoop dee doo. Kyle Wright had 5 stars. Anthony Morelli had 5 stars. Jeff Schweigert had 5 stars. Kevin Grady had 5 stars. Mike D'Andrea had 5 stars. Doesn't mean any of them did anything with it. Who cares how many stars they have. If your team has as much depth as you delusional ND fans claim they do, how could a freshman POSSIBLY come in and start? He would clearly be stuck behind all those amazing studs that have led you to such a stallwart record. Oh hey do you think your total yards on offense will EVER surpass your punting yardage? Because clearly all that depth is doing its job.

 

[unionfutura]

Jones wanted to leave in the offseason, where he could have prepared with another team, like Tennessee. We both know why he ended up staying.

Ohio State is loaded with talent at almost every position (very few in the 2-deep are graduating this year), yet I don't see players fleeing left and right.
OTOH, Notre Dame can't seem to get consistent play from many positions, yet players are running from the program.
Carufel started three weeks ago. Either the coaches have no idea what they're doing, the OL talent Charlie has brought in is doing poorly, or the kid can play. I'd say it's a bit of all three.

It's a bit early to write off the entire class, but it's remarkable how little of Charlie's talent is stepping up. Youngsters at other programs step up all the time, yet Charlie brings in two straight stellar classes and can't seem to field a half decent squad.

BTW, a 5th name to keep near the list of those four busts (possibly charlie-induced) is Sam Young, who seems to be taking steps backward under Weis' staff.

you probably can throw in Raeshon McNeil as well.

 

[BengalsAndBucks]

Not really sure how big of a story the in season aspect of the transfers are since it's a known rule that if you transfer out before the 12th day you can retain a full year of eligibility. Jones and Rueland both left before the 12th day and so they preserve a year of academic eligibility. Frazer left after spring practice.

Makes sense to me.

I would hardly call that class a miserable failure since the departed players were:

4th string QB.
3rd string QB.
3rd string TE.
3rd string OG.

Those were backups to the backsups and that's the trap that you're going to get caught in when you bring in a big class with several front line guys who play the same position. When those guys lose out in competition they have guys in their class ahead of them and more often than not, top guys coming in behind them.

Good thing Ohio State doesn't have any talent, otherwise our 3rd stringers might be transferring out too...

Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that our coach isnt a pompous asshole who throws his players under the buss after a loss while patting himself on the back. Instead, Tressel gives the 3rd stringers valuable in game experience so that our rebuilding years are 7-0 instead of 1-6.

 

[hobbs]

Jones wanted to leave in the offseason, where he could have prepared with another team, like Tennessee. We both know why he ended up staying.

Ohio State is loaded with talent at almost every position (very few in the 2-deep are graduating this year), yet I don't see players fleeing left and right.
OTOH, Notre Dame can't seem to get consistent play from many positions, yet players are running from the program.
Carufel started three weeks ago. Either the coaches have no idea what they're doing, the OL talent Charlie has brought in is doing poorly, or the kid can play. I'd say it's a bit of all three.

It's a bit early to write off the entire class, but it's remarkable how little of Charlie's talent is stepping up. Youngsters at other programs step up all the time, yet Charlie brings in two straight stellar classes and can't seem to field a half decent squad.

BTW, a 5th name to keep near the list of those four busts (possibly charlie-induced) is Sam Young, who seems to be taking steps backward under Weis' staff.

A) No I don't know why Jones didn't leave but you, an OSU fan, obviously do. I suspect that it's because of something that the evil arrogant Charlie Weis did.

By the way would the fact of him staying when he wanted to leave because Weis is such a bad person show that playing time was the key factor in his decision to leave?

B) OSu's situation in comparison to ND is night & day. Off the top of my head I'd guess that 70% of the players on OSU's roster hail from Ohio. In contrast maybe 5%-10% of ND's hail from Indiana or Illinois.

It's a lot easier to retain kids who are in-state products. When things go bad for them they can rely on family and their local roots. ND has no such anchor because 90% of their players come from hundreds of miles away.

C) Your summation fails to take something critical into account. Players develop at different rates. Carufel and Olsen were sophomores who were in the same class. At the start of the season Dan Wenger was the starting OG, he got hurt then Carufel stepped in. As weeks went by Olsen kept improving and the coaches felt that he had reached a point where he had passed Carufel.

It happens.

D) You mean players like true freshmen Kerry Neal or Brian Smith, or Will Yeatman, or Pat Kuntz, or hell even Kyle McCarthy. Nah, their not developing at all.

E) It's a minor point but Sam Young moved from RT to LT. As anyone knows LT is ten time harder than RT. Maybe, just maybe that's why he's struggling.

ND's struggling this year because the OL play has been beyond bad. There are several causes for this but I'm not going to get into it because OSU are closed to anything other than Charlie Weis sucks. I understand, at ND have our own rabid anti-Tressel element who scream about him constantly. it's part of the territory I guess.

Guys have just been thrown into positions that they weren't ready for but Weis had no alternative since he only had 3 (one 5th yr Sr, and 2 JR's) upperclassmen along the OL in total (that's three classes). More than any other position on the field OL take longer to develop because of the strength, continuity, and experience issues involved in playing as a unit.

We'll be fine next year after another season of weight work and drills and those guys just working together.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

We'll be fine next year after another season of weight work and drills.

Keep telling yourself that.

Back to Mike Floyd already.

 

[el mastiff]

For King rhabuf and Hobbs' eyes only.

Fake Men of Genius - CollegeHumor video

 

[lvbuckeye]

ND also already has commitments from two standout tight end prospects for next year -- 6-6, 229-pound Kyle Rudolph of Cincinnati, Ohio, the nation's #1 ranked TE prospect

did the Buckeyes even offer him? if not, then i wouldn't be putting too much stock in that #1 ranking...

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

did the Buckeyes even offer him? if not, then i wouldn't be putting too much stock in that #1 ranking...

They definitely did.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

Hes been playing behind a terrible offensive line, as well with a gigantic asshole in Sully.

Nice.

My interpretation:

You people are delusional.

 

[lvbuckeye]

For King rhabuf and Hobbs' eyes only.

Fake Men of Genius - CollegeHumor video

OT, but it was a link on that page. holy crap. look at Mike Conley show off his dribbling skills: Mike Conley Dribbling Skills - CollegeHumor video

 

[sandgk]

I'm just wary of gravy trains.

So you should be round South Bend - isn't a daily delivery needed to feed Weis' meat and potatoes?
School buses and anyone transporting hazardous substances have to stop for gravy trains.

Not really sure how big of a story the in season aspect of the transfers are

Here is a clue, for free, for real. When you have transfers like this mid-season what happens is that it directly changes the plan for the current recruiting class.
ND's flexibility to respond is hampered by the make-up of the current commits and it will cause them to have to change their priorities on future targets.

I would hardly call that class a miserable failure since the departed players were:

4th string QB. [Presumably 3* Jones, till Frazer left when he became not 3rd but 1st string - in spring till season's start, not that I am surprised you would succumb to revisionist history]
3rd string QB. [Presumably 4* Frazer - 9th rated QB]
3rd string TE. [5* TE , 2nd in country]
3rd string OG. [4* OT / OG - 10th rated in country]

Those were backups to the backsups and that's the trap that you're going to get caught in when you bring in a big class with several front line guys who play the same position. When those guys lose out in competition they have guys in their class ahead of them and more often than not, top guys coming in behind them.

First - fixed it for you so folks reading can have a handy reminder of just what has walked away from South Bend - it is a lot. It basically downgrades the class from 4th or 5th in country to near Miami (FL) - call it tied 14th in nation 2006. Where this ends, who knows.
At this rate the plan for ND's recovery will stretch out till the crack of doom.

A) No I don't know why Jones didn't leave but you, an OSU fan, obviously do. I suspect that it's because of something that the evil arrogant Charlie Weis did.

You really need to keep up on the ND boards - before the moderators delete the posts, then you would learn so much more.

By the way would the fact of him staying when he wanted to leave because Weis is such a bad person show that playing time was the key factor in his decision to leave?

OK, no it doesn't. It does show that he felt betrayed by the false representation made to him.

B) OSu's situation in comparison to ND is night & day. Off the top of my head I'd guess that 70% of the players on OSU's roster hail from Ohio. In contrast maybe 5%-10% of ND's hail from Indiana or Illinois.

So what? Doesn't ND always recruit nationally? So what, isn't ND the big fish? Isn't it their problem if they cannot crack the Buckeye State? Isn't it just their bad luck that they happen to reside away from a natural pool of talent. Tough luck, and oh yes, so what?

It's a lot easier to retain kids who are in-state products. When things go bad for them they can rely on family and their local roots. ND has no such anchor because 90% of their players come from hundreds of miles away.

Boo-hoo and BS. Look over the players who did transfer out from Ohio State in the past. Many were from Ohio. Lets review the most notable departed from ND this season, starting QB Jones, who hails from, yep, Illinois.

C) Your summation fails to take something critical into account. Players develop at different rates. Carufel and Olsen were sophomores who were in the same class. At the start of the season Dan Wenger was the starting OG, he got hurt then Carufel stepped in. As weeks went by Olsen kept improving and the coaches felt that he had reached a point where he had passed Carufel.

Once again that in and of itself doesn't lead to Carufel walking away from campus, disprupting his life for a full year. Something else is going on and I have a notion it is about that shuffling of the O-line by Weis and Latina, not the playing time.

E) It's a minor point but Sam Young moved from RT to LT. As anyone knows LT is ten time harder than RT. Maybe, just maybe that's why he's struggling.

Blame Latina - blame the mighty recruiting offensive genius. (Oh, and the RT to LT move is NOT a trivial point it is precisely the problem).

ND's struggling this year because the OL play has been beyond bad. There are several causes for this but I'm not going to get into it because OSU are closed to anything other than Charlie Weis sucks. I understand, at ND have our own rabid anti-Tressel element who scream about him constantly. it's part of the territory I guess.

Actually we are not closed to it at all. Latina, Weis, mismanagement, the wrong type of scheme for O-line play all the way through spring to opening day. Talking of closed though, you are certainly closed to the notion that this is anything more than scrubs getting put out to pasture.

Guys have just been thrown into positions that they weren't ready for but Weis had no alternative since he only had 3 (one 5th yr Sr, and 2 JR's) upperclassmen along the OL in total (that's three classes). More than any other position on the field OL take longer to develop because of the strength, continuity, and experience issues involved in playing as a unit.

He had an option, but he did not pursue it. Their protocol all the way through till this season was already lost, was to basically have all the O-line guys be ready for each position. The option he did not pursue was to have 3 good guards, three good tackles on the right, same on the left and depth at center. Weis or Latina could have done that, both tried to be too damned sophisticated. Guess they just didn't take into account how kids develop at different rates in different positions.
Must have had the kids heads spinning. Might have made some of them think that maybe the coaches were not all knowing.

We'll be fine next year after another season of weight work and drills and those guys just working together.

Given the screw-ups of the past my money is on more instances of player misuse - zebras don't change stripes, leopards don't change spots and Weis and Latina will still screw things up.

 

[methomps]

You're completely ignoring the fact that in one of the worst years of the programs existence, hes recruited (thus far) the #1 class in the country.

Nevermind that you are busy explaining away how all the transfers from your previous monster class are expendable. I'm sure this next monster class will turn out differently. And if it doesn't? Hey, they are expendable, too, because that 09 class is looking awesome!

 

[sandgk]

What recruits are you talking about? Jimmy? .

Pay attention rubboff. 4 transfers, all highly recruited by Weis, his first full class. That is why it was worded thusly:

with 4 of his first marquee recruits

You're completely ignoring the fact that in one of the worst years of the programs existence, hes recruited (thus far) the #1 class in the country.

A - good luck with that going into and on NLOID. Yeah, those Irish beat writers keep feeding you the line that the boys are all good and steady.
B - The 5th rated class of 2006 doesn't look quite as hot these days with the departure of 1 5*, 2 4* and your 3* starting QB from this season's start,which makes me wonder if
C - There will be yet more transfer stories next year and the year thereafter and so on.