NCAA punishes USC - Reggie Bush, OJ Mayo, Dwayne Jarrett, Joe McKnight investigation

[methomps]

Note the part of my post where I wrote: I'm not saying that is what happened, but if it did, I don't see how USC prevails in a lawsuit.

Oh, and perhaps a legal definition will help explain what I am talking about:

Unclean Hands One of the maxims of equity embodying the principle that a party seeking redress in a court of equity (equitable relief) must not have done any dishonest or unethical act in the transaction upon which he or she maintains the action in equity, since a court of conscience will not grant relief to one guilty of unconscionable conduct, i.e., to one with "unclean hands." See 171 A. 738, 749. Compare clean hands. McClintock, Handbook of the Principles of Equity ?26 (2d ed. 1948).

Translate: IF the stories are true about agents having free and open access to players in the locker room, and the staff knew or should have known players were receiving improper benefits from someone like Lake and turned a blind eye to it, they will have a hard time prevailing against Lake years later under the statute you cited (no matter how one-sided it is written). Again, I said IF that is what happened.

1. Assuming for sake of argument that "giving free and open acess to players" is dishonest or unethical, unclean hands requires such conduct be present in the specific transaction at issue. Lake would have to show that SC gave him (and not just other agents in general) free and open access to Bush and turned a blind eye.

2. Giving free and open access to players is neither dishonest nor unethical nor unconscionable. Again, it is a sin to the NCAA, not to a court of law.

I get that, but again how does that adversely affect Bush now? I really don't think that saying, "I was disqualified from playing/suspended from playing all those games back in 2005." is adversely affecting Bush in 2007, a 2nd year professional who has no eligibility left.

I don't understand. You don't have to prove an adverse affect. The statute directs a court to presume that you are adversely affected.

As for 2007 versus 2005, you can sue for harm done to you years before.

 

[BengalsAndBucks]

It just seems so wrong that Bush is able to buy himself out of trouble for himself/USC.

Completely agree here. I understand methomps wanting to defend his school, but the real tragedy here is that USC (or maybe it is really just Reggie Bush) is able to cheat and get away with it because of some bs law that doesn't really make much sense anyways.

 

[CleveBucks]

What would USC notice?

Oh, maybe the customized Chevy Impala that Lake purchased for him?

 

[Best Buckeye]

I see this great debate from last night is still alive so I'm going to jump in again.
The presumption that USC should know what their players are doing has been a main topic of college sports for years. Ohio state has been roasted in the past for NOT knowing about their players. I don't think there is a major college that doesn't have a compliance dept. within their athletic dept.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we bite the bullet over Boban Sobovic?
In that vein , yes USC should have known or at least checked out Bush and Lake , or any other connection of the like.
And kids talk too . Wow Reggie you got a new apartment. Wow Reggie Cool wheels. Did USC just think the magic trojan fairy princess brought them?

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I defy anyone to go to any "major program" and check in to the wheels kids are driving and find anything different from school to school. Bush's driving a decked out Impala - like Mo C driving around in a car he clearly couldn't afford (TVs in the headrest? Seriously?) - would hardly raise an eyebrow. Now, of course, when the NCAA comes poking around, the questions of "well, shouldn't you have known?" come about. Of course they should have. Of course Ohio State should. So should every other "Major program" when a kid who they recruited out of the "slums" of some city ends up driving around in a pimped out ride.

Bottom line - if USC screwed up, it's a really bad year to be Fresno State.

 

[buck e]

Completely agree here. I understand methomps wanting to defend his school, but the real tragedy here is that USC (or maybe it is really just Reggie Bush) is able to cheat and get away with it because of some bs law that doesn't really make much sense anyways.

I absolutely agree. That law is so one-sided its absurd. It's essentially the legislature performing USC's (and every other California school's) compliance responsibilities for them as it relates to agents. Not to mention, the penalties against their broadly defined "agent" is so severe that no agent in his right mind would blow the whistle. Which makes me think that Lake is pretty confident USC and/or Bush won't be able to win in court under that statute, that or they won't want to because of the information that would come out.

 

[mooktarr]

Methomps is only defending his school just as we would defend tOSU. He is not the only person who gets his hackles raised when defending his school.
USC is going down over this though IMO.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Ohio has very similar laws regarding the conduct of sports agents and student athletes.

The laws DO make sense (including Cali's law) They are set up to discourage sports agents, and they do. These laws do not absolve the university from their responsibilities - neither under law, nor under NCAA guidelines.

 

[BayBuck]

Lots of legal discussion going on here, but isn't the real issue still just this: Reggie Bush took a bunch of cash and benefits from some shady character, who may not have much to gain by going public now but also doesn't really have much to lose? Maybe revenge/spite is more of a compelling motivator for a low-life convict than some might think.

 

[stowfan]

I'm not a lawyer so I have a question, is actual proof weaker than a court appointed "presumption"? If Lake can PROVE Bush was not at all impacted, Rather his life improved a thousand fold does the presumption supersede the proof? If Bush had been suspended, or his draft status hurt the presumption
makes it easy, the FACT is Bush and SC didn't miss a beat.

On the SC board they talked about one of the assistant coaches staying in a $500.00 a night hotel room paid for by Lake. If Lake can prove the SC coaches knew that a crime was going on and didn't stop it are they and USC also culpable? I somehow don't see SC coming through this unscathed.

 

[BuffaloBuck]

Man...if all this is true, just think about what the kids at Stanford must be getting.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

Ohio has very similar laws regarding the conduct of sports agents and student athletes.

The laws DO make sense (including Cali's law) They are set up to discourage sports agents, and they do. These laws do not absolve the university from their responsibilities - neither under law, nor under NCAA guidelines.

I'm not a law....talkin guy, but how does this discourage sports agents? It seems to me that it encourages it....since Bush won't get nailed because of the law. Maybe I'm not understanding it (very likely).

 

[methomps]

Completely agree here. I understand methomps wanting to defend his school, but the real tragedy here is that USC (or maybe it is really just Reggie Bush) is able to cheat and get away with it because of some bs law that doesn't really make much sense anyways.

My position for some time now has been that Bush probably did something wrong, but there has been no credible evidence (compared to a sea of evidence against Bush) that USC did anything wrong. Since sanctions always have the effect of punishing the school more than the player (since the NCAA can't really do anything to the player once he is gone), I won't shed a tear when USC "gets away" with something it didn't do.

I see this great debate from last night is still alive so I'm going to jump in again.
The presumption that USC should know what their players are doing has been a main topic of college sports for years. Ohio state has been roasted in the past for NOT knowing about their players. I don't think there is a major college that doesn't have a compliance dept. within their athletic dept.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we bite the bullet over Boban Sobovic?
In that vein , yes USC should have known or at least checked out Bush and Lake , or any other connection of the like.
And kids talk too . Wow Reggie you got a new apartment. Wow Reggie Cool wheels. Did USC just think the magic trojan fairy princess brought them?

Didn't Sobovic's arrangements come with the involvement, or at least knowledge, of an OSU assistant coach? A little different situation.

 

[matcar]

I defy anyone to go to any "major program" and check in to the wheels kids are driving and find anything different from school to school. Bush's driving a decked out Impala - like Mo C driving around in a car he clearly couldn't afford (TVs in the headrest? Seriously?) - would hardly raise an eyebrow. Now, of course, when the NCAA comes poking around, the questions of "well, shouldn't you have known?" come about. Of course they should have. Of course Ohio State should. So should every other "Major program" when a kid who they recruited out of the "slums" of some city ends up driving around in a pimped out ride.

Bottom line - if USC screwed up, it's a really bad year to be Fresno State.

No doubt. People claiming that USC should have known better about what Bush was driving are crazy. We didn't know what MoC was driving until other problems surfaced. It's hard to ask coaches to know about all these ancillary aspects of a student/athlete's life. It's one thing to know what the kid is doing in school, but another thing to know about this other stuff. While it certainly appears likely that Bush was on the take, I don't know how we can say for certain that USC is culpable in this....yet.

 

[brutus2002]

Once the Bush family testifies(assuming this goes that far) USC is screwed. They should have to forfeit every game Bush played in. Once they testify its public information and the NCAA can use it. The Bush family is gonna protect USC up until they have to testify bfore a judge...until they testify the NCAA cannot do shit and thats exactly what the NCAA is waiting for. ..their testimony.This is in the same zip code of what Michigan got busted for. Nearly $250-300K...IF THEY DON'T GET CRUCIFIED FOR THAT THATS BULLSHIT. Michigan basically gave up a BTT and around 170 victories and was unable to go to the tuorney for a few years. If the NCAA doesn't give them the death penalty it shows bias. Tennessee is another school as dirty as they come but they don't do shit because fatass phil is either a snitch or Tennecheat has too folks involved with the NCAA infractions committee.