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NCAA punishes USC - Reggie Bush, OJ Mayo, Dwayne Jarrett, Joe McKnight investigation

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3yardsandacloud said:
USC's investigation? Or do we mean Pac10/NCAA investigation?

As you can tell I didn't read the article :)

Anyway ... 2 weeks? For a simple living arrangement ... that wasn't denied or covered up in any way? One that was reported to USC'c compliance department? Yeah, something tells me that's not good news. I guess it could just be the slow turning wheels of justice.
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Oh, I can assure you, if the jusitce branch of the gov. were involved it'd take a hell of a lot longer than 2 weeks.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
Oh, I can assure you, if the jusitce branch of the gov. were involved it'd take a hell of a lot longer than 2 weeks.
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Yep ... that's why I rely on the court of public opinion. I have my answers the same day (usually within the hour). :wink2:

EDIT: I guess my original point was that the whole situation seems pretty cut and dried. The facts are there and no one is disputing them. It's either a violation or it isn't. Maybe it takes 2 weeks to figure out what the NCAA regulations actually mean.
 
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3yardsandacloud said:
Yep ... that's why I rely on the court of public opinion. I have my answers the same day (usually within the hour). :wink2:

EDIT: I guess my original point was that the whole situation seems pretty cut and dried. The facts are there and no one is disputing them. It's either a violation or it isn't. Maybe it takes 2 weeks to figure out what the NCAA regulations actually mean.
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Likely
 
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3yardsandacloud said:
Yep ... that's why I rely on the court of public opinion. I have my answers the same day (usually within the hour). :wink2:

EDIT: I guess my original point was that the whole situation seems pretty cut and dried. The facts are there and no one is disputing them. It's either a violation or it isn't. Maybe it takes 2 weeks to figure out what the NCAA regulations actually mean.
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i don't think the ncaa knows what they mean either. i think they sit around with a magic 8 ball.

damn it steve. im trying to figure out this usc thing but my magic 8 ball keeps saying "ask again later". i think its stuck... can i borrow yours?

Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
Oh, I can assure you, if the jusitce branch of the gov. were involved it'd take a hell of a lot longer than 2 weeks.
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ah yes, the group that invented the magic 8 ball method. :p
 
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So, did Reggie get clearance to wear #5?

LAWH104051316_lower.jpg
 
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sounds like a pretty good compromise... however, do players get a large kickback for their jersey sales?

edit: teddy, I still don't understand your sig. Are you an arizona fan?
 
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CFN Tuesday Question - Bush & USC Wins

[FONT=verdana, arial, sans serif]Tuesday Question[/FONT][FONT=verdana, arial, sans serif][SIZE=+1]
If Reggie Bush is guilty, should USC forfeit any wins?
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[FONT=verdana, arial, sans serif][SIZE=-2]Pete Fiutak [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=verdana, arial, sans serif][SIZE=-2]
[/SIZE][/FONT] Q: If Reggie Bush is guilty of working with a sports marketing agency and received improper benefits when he was still a Trojan, should USC forfeit any wins? A: Do you really want to go nuclear and open the Pandora’s Box of taking away past achievements for something as silly as working with an agent? Forgetting the goofy and oppressive rules the NCAA and NFL have in place to keep the continued source of unpaid labor rolling (that’s for another argument), if you want to start picking and choosing what you want to take away from teams based on some transgressions that happened during the glory days, then it would get really, really ugly.

Fine, so let’s start really opening up the investigations and then see how the record books could possibly be rewritten.

Thanks to super-booster Sam Gilbert, you can probably say bye-bye to all ten of UCLA’s basketball national championships under Mr. Clean, John Wooden. You can all but kiss off any national titles under Bear Bryant, and anything of note achieved in the SEC and old Southwest Conference up until about ten minutes ago. How about those Miami national champions that had Luther Campbell hanging around the program? Do you want to take a harder look at Oklahoma and the Barry Switzer years?

How about that national title Ohio State team of a few years ago? The NCAA couldn’t figure out an episode of Blue’s Clues; turn Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams loose in Columbus and then see what turns up. The basketball program was dirty but the more-important-than-life-itself football program was 100% squeaky clean … rrriiiiiiiggght.

Am I saying what Bush allegedly did was fine? Well, yeah, but once again, that’s for another day. You just have a problem with it because he got caught. If you're a D-I program, something is going on in your world, albeit on different scales, that could be constituted as an NCAA violation, and to think otherwise is like believing all the home runs going on right now this baseball season have nothing to do with undetectable human growth hormones that MLB doesn't have a test for. USC just so happens to have higher profile players than most and a target on its back.

Taking away wins off the record book for dealing with an agent is just plain crazy. If you want to enforce the archaic and naive rules of amateurism as it pertains to college football, do a better job of investigating at the time and do what you have to. Does the NCAA want to do that? Of course not. It's a business like any other; who wants to see the ratings-grabbing superpowers get picked off? USC already won those games and provided college football some of the greatest memories ever. Nothing can, or should, change that.

 Richard Cirminiello [FONT=verdana, arial, sans serif][SIZE=-2] [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=verdana, arial, sans serif][SIZE=-2]
[/SIZE][/FONT] Q: If Reggie Bush is guilty of working with a sports marketing agency and received improper benefits when he was still a Trojan, should USC forfeit any wins?
A: Often times, the best questions are the ones with the biggest grey areas. This one is tougher than it looks because so many people are impacted by the actions of just one or a few. If Bush was a tennis player or a golfer, the answer is elementary. He’s not, however, which means his stupidity and selfish behavior is going to effect dozens of squeaky clean ex-teammates, whose only infraction was sharing the same locker room as No. 5. If it’s proven Bush broke NCAA rules by having an improper relationship with an agent, someone has to get whacked, and hard. All of these kids, from the blue-chippers to the walk-ons, know from the moment they walk on to campus that once you or your family accepts anything from an agent, you’re done. Bush (allegedly) arrogantly thumbed his nose at the rules, figuring he and the program were above it all. Neither is, and once we give the opposite impression, an amateur athletics version of chaos ensues. A strong message needs to be sent. Take away the Heisman and strip his name from the record books. If he cheated, he ought to pay a hefty price. No grey area here.

I waffle, however, when it comes to the question of forfeiting wins. And I hate waffling. No one wants to see innocent players, such as David Kirtman or Oscar Lua, go down with the ship, but when rules are broken, there’s always collateral damage. It’s just unfair, but you sort of get the impression that a blind eye from Pete Carroll to the administration as a whole was cast on players like Bush because no one wanted to mess with unbelievable success. If the Heisman goes, that means Bush was ineligible to compete as an amateur in 2005. And if the Trojans, knowingly or otherwise, played a season with an ineligible kid, the wins have to be forfeited as well. No one is naïve enough to believe you can police everything that happens within a program, but these were the actions of an arrogant athlete that couldn’t wait for the fame and fortune that was just around the corner. Anything other than a stiff penalty is bad for the sport.

When you mess with the bull, you’re gonna get the horns (see The Breakfast Club). Playing the role of the bull is the NCAA, and they ought to be seeing red if the allegations involving Bush and the Trojan program wind up being accurate.
John Harris [FONT=verdana, arial, sans serif][SIZE=-2] [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=verdana, arial, sans serif][SIZE=-2]
[/SIZE][/FONT] Q: If Reggie Bush is guilty of working with a sports marketing agency and received improper benefits when he was still a Trojan, should USC forfeit any wins?
A: Should USC have to forfeit wins because of Reggie Bush’s alleged involvement with an agent?
This is tough. The question of whether it’s equitable to take away wins from an institution for one’s man supposed folly is without question the most difficult to answer. It’s a question that has plagued coaches, administrators and the NCAA for years. Who do you punish? To me, it’s simple, if it is this simple – what did USC, the institution, know, when did they know it and what do they do on a regular basis to try to stop it?
Every time I think about this situation my head spins in a million different directions. But, I keep coming back to this one thing – if USC didn’t have any clue about the Bush house or the Bush money – can you penalize them? I’m not sure that you can. It, of course, is nearly impossible to believe that some ‘agent’ was giving Bush tons of cash, then alerted USC to the fact that they might want to be in the discussion so they can keep their nose clean. If there’s a compliance officer at USC that turned his back on that discussion, then, yes, USC needs to forfeit those wins. But, if the Bush family did this without discussing with anybody, and in reality, why would they be forced to discuss it with anyone, then how is USC going to know? Are they going to do random ‘house audits’ to see where each player is living from now on? C’mon, that’s ridiculous.
To draw a parallel, think of every corporate fraud case (Enron, Tyco, World Com, etc…) that took place the past five or six years – if it needs to be concealed, it can be. Auditors, who are hired to look for instances of fraud and misappropriation of assets, missed it. For years. Now, the difference is that USC wasn’t attempting to cover up the money and the mess, the Bush’s were, allegedly. For that, make the Bush family pay for it, if what’s happened is true.
I think there’s a level of culpability and responsibility that USC has to defend – in other words, if they can show to a proper degree, what they do as a university to <st1:lists w:st="on"> ensure</st1:lists> things like this don’t happen, then, I think it’s reasonable to assume that they shouldn’t be blamed. Now, if there’s no compliance officer on campus, no on-going ‘student/athlete-agent’ education discussions or just a rogue atmosphere, then perhaps it’d be the judgment of the NCAA that they may not be directly responsible for Reggie Bush’s family pulling in a hundred large, but guilty of allowing an environment to subsist that is not indicative of other member schools. But, at such a high profile university, I’ve got to think that there’s a team of people that have been hired to keep this type of thing from happening. And, why? Because universities ultimately take the brunt of improper action, even if it’s well outside the university’s reach. But, that doesn’t mean those universities should.

 [FONT=verdana, arial, sans serif][SIZE=-1] Matthew Zemek[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=verdana, arial, sans serif][SIZE=-2] [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=verdana, arial, sans serif][SIZE=-2]
[/SIZE][/FONT] Q: If Reggie Bush is guilty of working with a sports marketing agency and received improper benefits when he was still a Trojan, should USC forfeit any wins?

A: No.
I see some comparisons with this USC situation in the late-1990s era of Florida football. In both cases, two very ethical head coaches--Pete Carroll and Steve Spurrier--got ambushed by national championship euphoria quickly translating into a culture of excess that seduced a few players. (If I'm not mistaken, Jevon Kearse had some premature involvement with predatory agent Tank Black; Florida was rightly not forced to forfeit any games.) All in all, games should be forfeited by a school if the coach, AD, or other highly-placed members of the program knowingly commit violations and/or overlook proper procedures. This is why Ohio State was stripped of its 1999 Final Four appearance in men's basketball--the coach, Jim O'Brien, was the principal wrongdoer.
So no, USC should not forfeit any games. However--and this completes the parallel with Florida in the late 1990s--the damage seems to be quite substantial already. Just as Florida slipped in the late 1990s before regaining its footing in 2000 and 2001, all of the controversies and scandals enveloping the Trojan program are likely to hurt the team on the field this year. If Carroll can't stop the bleeding (I think he can, but it won't be easy, either), it might take 2-3 years before USC performs the way it has the past few seasons.
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All in all a fairly balanced set of answers.
 
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CFN's Fiutak Once Again to Bush's Side

Another show of support for the rational by Fiutak at CFN.
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[FONT=verdana, arial, sans serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=verdana, arial, sans serif][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]If Reggie Bush was involved with an agent, shouldn’t he have his Heisman taken away? - CF

If U.S.C were to have to forfeit the games from 2004 that Reggie Bush played in and were stripped of the national title is it possible Auburn would at least split the title with Okalahoma or could the tigers been given the whole thing since they were the number 2 team that year? This would be the only fair thing since the tigers were left out even though they played a better schedule and all that year with more top 10 wins and more wins against 9 win opponents. Please let me know if this is a possibility that could develop. – CR

A: And you’re 100% sure each and every Auburn player was totally clean? Fine, if it makes you feel better, Auburn is now the 2004 national champion. Woo-hoo. Go party it up. All the talk of stripping USC of the title is ridiculous, and taking away the Heisman would be even more insane. O.J. Simpson wasn’t convicted of murder, but he was basically held accountable in the civil suit and no one said boo about him forfeiting his Heisman. Bush has a possible issue with an agent and some want his prize taken away? Aren’t things a bit out of whack?

Please, please, please, please. Do NOT let the NCAA's twisted, self-serving notion of morality and right and wrong keep you from being rational. It's only considered cheating to deal with an agent because the NCAA needs it to be that way. Cheating is when someone takes steroids or pumps up on undetectable human growth hormones and goes from being 220 to 255 in one year. Cheating is when someone fixes a game for gambling purposes. Cheating is having someone take a test for a player to keep him eligible. Cheating isn't when someone deals with an agent, takes money, or does a lot of the other things the NCAA says is wrong.[/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
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buckeye247 said:
supposedly he will donate half of the proceeds from the selling of the number 5 jersey to the katrina relief fund. This is why the nfl is going to let him wear it. I have no problem with it as long as he donates the money to the katrina fund.
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Supposedly "The team allowed Bush to wear the No. 5 at its recent minicamp and it was Bush's marketing agent Mike Ornstein's desire to have his client wear the number at the photo shoot. "Until it has been decided, we are going to go with number 5," said Ornstein, who insisted that there would still be No. 5 jerseys on site for pictures.
Ornstein originally said that Bush would donate 25 percent of all the royalties he received from jersey sales toward Hurricane Katrina charities if the league granted him the right to wear No. 5. But Ornstein told ESPN.com on Tuesday morning that Bush has now agreed to make the donation no matter what number he wears."

Also, "The NFL has not denied Reggie Bush's request to wear No. 5 this upcoming season, but early indications are that the New Orleans Saints draft pick will not get his way.
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Reggie Bush's efforts to get No. 5 will have to go to the desk of commissioner Paul Tagliabue. The NFL Competition Committee held a conference call last Friday and talked about changing the uniform numbering policy. To read more, and the rest of John Clayton's quick hits, click here.
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One thing is for sure, it won't be "in the cards" for Bush.
The team informed the NFL Players Association on Tuesday that their top draft pick will wear the No. 25 for this weekend's Rookie Premiere photo shoot, according to Pam Adolph, vice president of apparel operations for Players Inc., the union's marketing arm. For years, Players Inc. has been putting on the event so that the card companies can release cards with players in their jerseys before the season starts."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2447010
 
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This whole mess can be settled easily. Change Reggie's "official" position to kicker, or hell make it punter since he did that in HS, then he can wear #5. Just act like you are playing your punter at RB for the next 10 years.

:tongue2:
 
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