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Multiple shootings at Va Tech

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Best Buckeye;818554; said:
The numbers are moot. the discussion is to wether or not there could havev been lives saved by the presence of one sane person with a gun.
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Again. Another "But what if....." scenario. Who really knows how many gun-deaths there would be if anyone could carry a gun? Who knows how many people Cho would have killed? Nobody knows. It's all conjecture.

To me there is no discussion. I refuse to be a victim, if you chose to be one that is up to you.
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That's dandy, but not particularly relevant to the conversation at hand.

In the real world we speak of saving lives not abandoning them.
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That's nonsense. He's not "abandoning" lives, he's looking to save future lives. You can spin it however you want, but it's absolute rubbish to suggest that methomps is somehow "abandoning" lives by being for gun-control. Unreal.
 
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Bucky Katt;818561; said:
Again. Another "But what if....." scenario. Who really knows how many gun-deaths there would be if anyone could carry a gun? Who knows how many people Cho would have killed? Nobody knows. It's all conjecture.
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He is using a what if senario by suggesting that if a gun was present at the massacre and gun carrying was allowed that other people would have or could have died by those guns. How "what if"can you get?
 
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methomps;818520; said:
Yes, but if increased gun presence on campuses lead to 33 people dying over time (accidental shootings, drunken stupidity, etc), then the benefit to society is negated.
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ah, a clever argument... however, VT is not an isolated incident. what happens the next time a kid goes on a rampage and takes out 50, or even a hundred people?

i think you watched too many western movies. back in the day there were FAR fewer gunfights than get depicted in fiction stories. most people think twice about pulling a gun when the other guy is going to shoot back.
 
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She is hot :sick1:

Link

[FONT=verdana,arial,sans-serif][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif] 'He was Creeping me Out'
 [/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=verdana,arial,sans-serif][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]WSLS NewsChannel 10[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,sans-serif][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Apr 23, 2007[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,sans-serif][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=verdana,arial,sans-serif][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]
icon_video.gif
Night with an Escort[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,sans-serif][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"I'm just so shaken by this, I don't know what to say."
Chastity Frye says she spent an hour, all alone, with Virginia Tech killer Cho Seung-Hui last month.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,sans-serif][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Frye said "He was so quiet, I really couldn't get much from him, he was so distant, he really didn't talk a lot. It seemed like he wasn't all there."[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,sans-serif][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Frye works for an escort service. She says, Cho hired her, and the two met at a Valley View motel.
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[FONT=verdana,arial,sans-serif][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Cont...
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[FONT=verdana,arial,sans-serif][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]And I started dancing and that's when he you know, touched me and tried to get on me and that's when I pushed him away."[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=verdana,arial,sans-serif][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I asked Frye if she was afraid at that point: "No, because he went away right away."[/FONT][/FONT]
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Liar.
 
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lvbuckeye;820051; said:
ah, a clever argument... however, VT is not an isolated incident. what happens the next time a kid goes on a rampage and takes out 50, or even a hundred people?

i think you watched too many western movies. back in the day there were FAR fewer gunfights than get depicted in fiction stories. most people think twice about pulling a gun when the other guy is going to shoot back.
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Although I framed the test in terms of lives lost at VaTech, it really is total benefit minus total cost. Total benefit wouldn't include just one incident, but rather all the incidents.
 
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lvbuckeye;820051; said:
ah, a clever argument... however, VT is not an isolated incident. what happens the next time a kid goes on a rampage and takes out 50, or even a hundred people?
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50 or a hundred people die. like thomps said there is a very valid argument against having the weapons inside there. people could very easily come across the weapon.....more accidents, easier access, etc lead to just as many if not more deaths. i think in some scenarios the criminal is less likely to carry out a crime if the opposition has a weapon but cho had no intent of making it out of this situation alive so it really would not have mattered. say one person had a gun and all cho would have to do is kill that person and game over. say multiple people had guns.....whos kill who and for what reason? i am not arguing one way or another but there are obvious flaws in the matter.
 
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I am not by any means a fan of the NRA, but this appears to be a small step toward responsibility.

NRA - Supports Legislation


Isikoff: The NRA's Take On the Cho Massacre
The NRA's top lobbyist speaks out on the gathering debate over gun control triggered by the Virginia Tech massacre. And some gun owners don't like what he has to say.

WEB EXCLUSIVE
By Michael Isikoff
Newsweek
Updated: 7:53 p.m. ET April 24, 2007


April 24, 2007 - In his first public comments since last week's massacre, the National Rifle Association's top lobbyist said today that the group backs proposed new legislation designed to ensure that mentally unstable killers like Cho Seung-Hui do not gain access to firearms.

Wayne LaPierre, the group's executive vice president, told NEWSWEEK that Cho, the Virginia Tech killer, "absolutely" should have been barred from buying a gun under current federal laws. But Lapierre nonetheless says the group is now working with longtime ally Rep. John Dingell, Democrat of Michigan, on a bill to ensure that mental-health records-such as the December 2005 court order directing Cho to receive a psychiatric evaluation-are entered into a FBI database that is used for background checks of gun buyers. Federal law does bar sales of guns to those who have been found to be mentally "defective," but most states have a shoddy track record of reporting mental-health records to the feds...
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lvbuckeye;821189; said:
oh, i won't argue that there are no flaws... but we live in an imperfect world, so the flaws exist by definition. personally, i would much rather have the means to protect myself than not...
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true but one in disagreement with that could claim that you would face the possibility of having to protect yourself more often than currently therefore increasing you chance of being killed. also just because somebody has a weapon does not mean they know how to use it which opens up the possibility of accidents, crimes directed towards women and not men, etc.
 
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