Mt. Rushmore of Coaches

kinch · Mar 28, 2005

Collegefootballnews has a question in this weeks ask cfn regarding who should be on the Mt. Rushmore of Coaches. http://www.collegefootballnews.com/2005/Ask_CFN/Ask_CFN.htm

Pete Fiutak (who I am generally a fan of) said: "the Mount Rushmore of D-I college football coaches (that’s why no Eddie Robinson or John Gagliardi) would have to have Bryant, Joe Paterno, Bobby Bowden and Knute Rockne."

Do you guys agree? Should Woody be on there? Which four would you choose?

stxbuck · Mar 28, 2005

If you are looking at straight wins and losses, yeah, the article is probably right. If you are looking at upstanding, positive individuals-Hayes,Gagliardi,Eddie Robinson,Fielding Yost (way old school)-all should be up there above Bowden and Bryant. Bryant was a great coach, but he was also a racist,alcholic, womanizing, non-academic oriented individual. Woody hayes was the 100% opposite of him in all those areas.

Zurp · Mar 28, 2005

Boot Bowden off that list and get Woody. I think coaching is more than what happens on the field - off the field is important, as well. Bowden lets criminals like Peter Warrick play for his team, while Woody made sure his players graduated. Paterno does the same.

(Maybe that's a little unfair - players didn't leave for the pro draft early when Woody and the others were coaching.)

I don't like that they considered Fielding Yost and Bud Wilkinson and they didn't consider Woody.

NightmaresDad · Mar 28, 2005

No Way would bowden make it. coached for a million years and 1 NC?

Replace him with Woody and I could not argue about the rest. Besides, Woody's features were already chisled out of granite!

AKAK · Mar 28, 2005

Ahhh- Its a fun question... I definitely have issues with Bowden since there was only one team worth a broke dick in the ACC for quite a while... and while he coached in a lot of great games... there were a bunch of wide somethings involved.

A better question is if you had a Mount Rushmore of Ohio State Coaches, Do you put John Cooper on it? :wink2:

High Lonesome · Mar 28, 2005

I know that this isnt a popular sentiment on this board but i think that most people in america have a hard time separating woody from bo, that is to say that they helped with each others legacy. I would have no problem taking bowden off and putting woody up there but i can understand why they did not. On that note, I think that an arguement could be made for Darrell Royal, the man invented the wishbone for crying out lound, not to mention national championships and so on.

ysubuck · Mar 28, 2005

Gosh. This is an easy one!!

Pete Carroll and Norm Chow. Who else is there?

JohnnyCockfight · Mar 28, 2005

ysubuck said:
Gosh. This is an easy one!!

Pete Carroll and Norm Chow. Who else is there?

The 'Ol Ballcoach. Oh, and Mike Stoops.

Dryden · Mar 28, 2005

High Lonesome said:
I know that this isnt a popular sentiment on this board but i think that most people in america have a hard time separating woody from bo, that is to say that they helped with each others legacy.

I always love hearing the opinions of other CFB fans, particularly those from outside the state of Ohio, or even outside of "Big-10 Country" to help keep me and my Buckeye tinted glasses in check. Maybe "The Game" or "The 10 Year War" or whatever people choose to call it has forever tied Woody to Bo, but to me, I think the general overlooking of Coach Hayes (disrespect may be too strong a word -- but even that may be appropriate) is a result of his temper, of "The Punch."

Woody's on-field accomplishments are routinely undervalued. A common blurb before the 2002 Fiesta Bowl reads like so: "... Hayes, who guided the Buckeyes to 13 Big Ten titles, 11 bowl appearances and three national championships. He won 238 games, all at OSU from 1951 to 1978." This ignores quite a bit, starting with the NCs ('54, '57, and '68). What about the seasons of '61, '70, and '73? Those were certainly NC-worthy, measured by more than one outlet. Coach Hayes, when not slighted by the media -- the AP -- had the administration and faculty to contend with. If there wasn't any silly drama or backroom politiking, there was the Big-10's "no repeat" rule. For the bulk of Hayes's career, it was the Rose Bowl or nothing, and even the Rose wasn't a guarantee if the team had gone the year before. That's a strong argument, 6 NCs in a 28 year career, essentially one every four years -- 11 bowl appearances in a 28 year career, when for the bulk of that period the best case scenario was to play in the Rose Bowl every other year, since there were no other Big-10 affiliated bowls.

Then, there's the matter of Woody's off-field accomplishments, all of which are widely ignored -- the graduation rates, the charitable work, the integration of black players nearly two full decades ahead of the curve.

BB73 · Mar 28, 2005

NightmaresDad said:
No Way would bowden make it. coached for a million years and 1 NC?

Replace him with Woody and I could not argue about the rest. Besides, Woody's features were already chisled out of granite!

Bobby won NC's in 1993 (thanks to BC beating ND the week after ND beat FSU), and in 1999, when they went undefeated and were number 1 for the entire season.

I saw the headline and figured those would be the 4 guys before I read the article. Woody's in the group with Bud Wilkinson, just a notch under Bryant, Rockne, Paterno, and Bowden (15 straight years in the top-4).

NightmaresDad · Mar 28, 2005

AKAKBUCK said:
A better question is if you had a Mount Rushmore of Ohio State Coaches, Do you put John Cooper on it?

No, he's already on Mt. scUM :)

BuckeyeBill73 said:
Bobby won NC's in 1993 (thanks to BC beating ND the week after ND beat FSU), and in 1999, when they went undefeated and were number 1 for the entire season.

I saw the headline and figured those would be the 4 guys before I read the article. Woody's in the group with Bud Wilkinson, just a notch under Bryant, Rockne, Paterno, and Bowden (15 straight years in the top-4).

OK, my bad - 2 NCs
As for the 15 straight years in the top 4, that has to be taken with a grain of salt, because of the conference competition, which was none. You might even hear similar arguments against Paterno, but not from me.

BB73 · Mar 28, 2005

NightmaresDad said:
As for the 15 straight years in the top 4, that has to be taken with a grain of salt, because of the conference competition, which was none. You might even hear similar arguments against Paterno, but not from me.

My bad - Bowden only had 14 straight years in the top 4. First one listed below is AP, second is the Coaches poll. He also had a string of 11 straight bowl wins, the last 9 of which were for the 1987 through 1995 seasons. Those 9 straight bowl opponents at the beginning of the 14-year string were: Nebraska (4 times), Auburn, Penn St., Texas A&M, Notre Dame and Florida.

In the regular season, he played Miami and Florida every year. During the 14 year run he was 11-4-1 against Florida (8-4-1 against Spurrier) and 7-7 against Miami, who won 3 NC's during those years, and another in 2001.

So in 14 years he lost 19 games, despite playing Florida and Miami a total of 30 times in those years, and 14 top-notch bowl opponents. That's pretty impressive regardless of how weak the ACC was during those years.

And for the record, I can't stand Bobby Bowden, but I can't deny these facts.

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