Mo Clarett vs Beanie Wells

[Worm02]

I'm not sure I follow you're reasoning on that one. The fact that the '06 Buckeye team imploded at the worst possible moment has very little to do with Chris Wells, and absolutely nothing to do with the '03 Buckeye team. Same with the '07 team, except that they didn't exactly implode.

At any rate, (sophomore) Chris Wells on the '03 team obviously wouldn't guarantee a national championship, but I think it would give a very legitimate shot to a team that wasn't far off of championship caliber, and principally was only lacking a top-shelf tailback. Arguably not as good a shot as sophomore Clarett would have given them, but a very legitimate one nonetheless.

Ohio State's teams the last two seasons were much better than 2003. Not saying that Beanie wouldn't have made a difference, but if the Bucks couldn't win one with him the last two seasons, I doubt that they would have won one with him in 2003.

 

[akronbuck]

Ohio State's teams the last two seasons were much better than 2003. Not saying that Beanie wouldn't have made a difference, but if the Bucks couldn't win one with him the last two seasons, I doubt that they would have won one with him in 2003.

you can't say Beanie wouldn't have helped to win the games when he didn't the chance to . OSU was playing catch up not BEANIE BALL.

Beanie picked up a lot of yards compared to clarett and he even didn't get the ball that much to run with the pass first game we played

 

[zincfinger]

Ohio State's teams the last two seasons were much better than 2003. Not saying that Beanie wouldn't have made a difference, but if the Bucks couldn't win one with him the last two seasons, I doubt that they would have won one with him in 2003.

I understood what you're saying, but there are a couple areas where I don't think the argument really holds water. First, your argument rests on the view that the '06 and '07 teams weren't good enough to win the national championship. Obviously, they didn't win the championship, but the '06 team in particular, in my opinion, was plenty good enough to win it. They just imploded at the wrong time, and that wasn't due to Chris Wells being insufficient, it was a team-wide implosion. Similarly, throw sophomore Chris Wells in the '03 lineup, and there's certainly no guarantee that they would win a national championship. Maybe they'd implode at some point as the '06 team did, maybe they'd get edged out by a comparably talented team, of which there would have been a few. But they'd be right up there with the best of them as one of a handful of teams that had a very legitimate shot, in my opinion. Second, while I'd agree that the '06 and '07 teams were better than the '03 team (I probably wouldn't say much better in the case of the '07 team, but better), I think that's largely precisely because the '03 team lacked a consistently, highly productive tailback. Give the '03 team an excellent tailback, and I think they're better than the '07 team, and nearly as good as the '06 team. Maybe as good. Just to emphasize that point, the '03 team returned most of the starting roster that was good enough to win the championship in '02. They had a couple of significant losses on defense, but the guys who replaced them were very good in their own right. The one glaring loss that '03 had relative to '02 was Maurice Clarett. Even if Wells isn't Clarett (and as I said above, I think Wells as a sophomore is comparable to Clarett as a freshman), he would have gone a long way toward filling that one, glaring absence.

 

[Worm02]

you can't say Beanie wouldn't have helped to win the games when he didn't the chance to . OSU was playing catch up not BEANIE BALL.

Ohio State played "Beanie ball" the last two years and couldn't get the job done. Those teams were superior to 2003 in more ways than one.

Don't get me wrong. Beanie is developing into a great one. With that being said, you seriously can't expect him to lead a team to the national championship (2003) that's considerably weaker than the ones that he had a chance to win at least one with (2006 & 2007). It takes a special team to win a national championship, and I don't think that a young Beanie would have made 2003 special. If he would have played that year, he would have been an elite back on a solid team. Adrian Peterson didn't even win one with Oklahoma, so you can't expect Beanie, who isn't at the level of Peterson (even though he's very good), to win one with Ohio State in 2003, especially when he's already 0-2. I really hate to keep bringing that up (the record), but it is what it is.

 

[zincfinger]

you seriously can't expect him to lead a team to the national championship (2003) that's considerably weaker than the ones that he had a chance to win at least one with (2006 & 2007).

Ignore tailback and compare the rest of the starting rosters of the '03 and '07 teams. Below is the '03 roster, to refresh my memory as much as yours. Overall, and again, tailback aside, I personally think it's superior to '07.



POS ## OFFENSE
SE 12 Jenkins,M
LT 77 Sims,Rob
LG 63 Clarke,Adrien
C 55 Mangold,Nick
RG 76 Stepanovich,A
RT 71 Olivea,Shane
TE 88 Hartsock,Ben
FL 4A Holmes,S
QB 16 Krenzel,Craig
TB 30 Ross,Lydell
TE 80 Hamby,Ryan


POS ## DEFENSE
DE 75 Fraser,Simon
LT 56 Scott,Darrion
RT 54 Anderson,Tim
DE 93 Smith,Will
WLB 47 Hawk, A.J.
MLB 44 Reynolds,R
SLB 42 Carpenter,B
LCB 37 Fox,Dustin
FS 21 Salley,Nate
SS 4 Allen,Will
RCB 7 Gamble,Chris

 

[Worm02]

I understood what you're saying, but there are a couple areas where I don't think the argument really holds water. First, your argument rests on the view that the '06 and '07 teams weren't good enough to win the national championship. Obviously, they didn't win the championship, but the '06 team in particular, in my opinion, was plenty good enough to win it. They just imploded at the wrong time, and that wasn't due to Chris Wells being insufficient, it was a team-wide implosion. Similarly, throw sophomore Chris Wells in the '03 lineup, and there's certainly no guarantee that they would win a national championship. Maybe they'd implode at some point as the '06 team did, maybe they'd get edged out by a comparably talented team, of which there would have been a few. But they'd be right up there with the best of them as one of a handful of teams that had a very legitimate shot, in my opinion. Second, while I'd agree that the '06 and '07 teams were better than the '03 team (I probably wouldn't say much better in the case of the '07 team, but better), I think that's largely precisely because the '03 team lacked a consistently, highly productive tailback. Give the '03 team an excellent tailback, and I think they're better than the '07 team, and nearly as good as the '06 team. Maybe as good. Just to emphasize that point, the '03 team returned most of the starting roster that was good enough to win the championship in '02. They had a couple of significant losses on defense, but the guys who replaced them were very good in their own right. The one glaring loss that '03 had relative to '02 was Maurice Clarett. Even if Wells isn't Clarett (and as I said above, I think Wells as a sophomore is comparable to Clarett as a freshman), he would have gone a long way toward filling that one, glaring absence.

I understand you're point, but all this is based on "what ifs" as opposed to facts. A more legit comparison to Clarett would be asking if Beanie would have started over Clarett in 2002. I SERIOUSLY doubt that he would have, but I know most people on this board would say that he would've. It probably wouldn't be as lopsided as this poll, but most people would still vote with their heart, which would still give Beanie the edge.

 

[zincfinger]

I understand you're point, but all this is based on "what ifs" as opposed to facts. A more legit comparison to Clarett would be asking if Beanie would have started over Clarett in 2002. I SERIOUSLY doubt that he would have, but I know most people on this board would say that he would've. It probably wouldn't be as lopsided as this poll, but most people would still vote with their heart, which would still give Beanie the edge.

I don't think Wells as a freshman would have started over Clarett in '02 either. But the topic went off on a bit of a tangent. And I think the '03 team with Clarett would have been of national championship caliber. No guarantees of outcome, but they would have been of that caliber. Similarly, I think the '03 team with a sophomore Wells would have been of national championship caliber. Arguably not quite as good as with sophomore Clarett (which is very much a "what if"), but still of championship caliber.

 

[Buckeyefan_6]

On the football field beanie wins the character/talent war but...could beanie make the top 24 here?

 

[Sportsbuck28]

Ohio State's teams the last two seasons were much better than 2003. Not saying that Beanie wouldn't have made a difference, but if the Bucks couldn't win one with him the last two seasons, I doubt that they would have won one with him in 2003.

We were a loss against scUM away from the NC game without a real running back in 03, we would've made it with Beanie.

 

[blazedett]

O.K., on the field Only? Given that we only saw clarette up to his freshman year, Maurice was clearly the better freshman. Are we assuming that Mo C, like beanie, played out a complete college career and for the most part worked hard and stayed out of trouble? Well in that case, i would have to say , Maurice Clarette. If we are basing this discussion on talent alone, You've gotta go with Maurice Clarette. When he took the field against texas tech, the first time he touched the ball, there was something magic about him that you could see right away. A Phenom and a Prodigy who messed his life up. Beanie is no doubt the best running back coming into the season, and should be a beast in the NFL as well. However, we have to base this discussion on the one season we saw from maurice, in which he looked like the most amazing running back i have ever seen. And to those who hate on maurice for embarrassing the University, come on the guy messed up his entire blessed life of being an amazing talent and is now sitting behind bars in debt. He was a kid who made some terrible decisions and im sure he wishes even more than i do that he could go back and play at least 2 more season for ohio state.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Late to this one so forgive me if I'm repetative.

This is a completely subjective poll unless you are asking who was the better Freshman. If thats the question its MoC hands down.

I saw some opine that the '03 team wasn't that good compared to '06 and '07. I couldn't disagree more.

The '03 team was essentially the '02 team with no MoC and it cost us two games. We had zero running game the entire season and still went to AA with a win punching our ticket to defend the title.

14 guys from that '03 team were drafted the following spring. I don't know for sure but I don't think we had 14 guys drafted total from the '06 and '07 teams.

For those that remember and want to indulge in a little "what if" with me, think of the '02 and '03 season with another back in the stable named Dru Humphries.

If he was as good as advertised he could have been a 1-2 punch with MoC in '02 and maybe MoC doesn't get so beat up. Even if he did then we possibly have another legit big time running threat so our O doesn't go in the tank the whole second half of the year. Then in '03 we possibly have a real running threat to go with that otherwise stacked team.

I know woulda coulda shoulda but thats the one I've always felt never gets enough discussion when looking back. Think of that 02-03 team with a two headed monster at RB. We win 27 straight and roll damn near everyone imo.

 

[DaveyBoy]

MoC was better as a freshman...was that all his own skill vs Beanie or the fact that there was less competition for the starting role when MoC was a freshman? But overall, I'd say Maurice was the best freshman running back I'd ever seen at OSU all around

That being said, I have always thought that Beanie Wells had more upside potential than MoC. MoC wasn't slow...he was fairly fast, but not very fast. Beanie is VERY fast. Add to that Beanie's greater size and slightly better quicks, then you see that Beanie will be greater someday than MoC would have been even if he had played 3 or 4 years at OSU and developed his game.

This is, of course, speculation.