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Mike Vick (Pittsburgh Steelers)

RugbyBuck;893569; said:
Sorry, but I'm not wrong. Would the world be any worse off if there were no pitbulls?

would the world be any worse off if there were no native americans? we should probably take this convo to pm's as to not clutter up the thread any more than it already has been. because im pretty sure we can spin in this circle for quite a while. my point is that you don't get to invalidate the importance of a species or breed simply because you do not find them appealing.

OCBucksFan;905169; said:
God I hate to agree with tibs here, but what about the chick who got 7 months for wacking her husband? Vick should get more time than that? give me a friggin break.

The guy should get a year, do 6-9 months of it and have Peta after his ass forever, sorry a dogs life is not better than a persons life, regardless of circumstance.

Ding me if you want, that's my thoughts.

in some ways you are exactly right and in some ways you are a little off. i completely agree with you that some of the things vick has been charged with in the grand scheme of things are lower on the list than things others have gotten a slap on the wrist for in certain cases. however, i wonder if some of you fully understand what vick is being charged with. the dog fighting charge is but one of many and to be perfectly honest, not near the most serious of the charges. federal felonies, racketeering, tax evasion, etc... these aren't little kid charges. right wrong or indifferent these ARE charges that can nail you to the wall far harder than simply killing someone. they are after all the charges that were utilized to rip the still beating heart out of organized crime.

additionally, there is a big difference between beating the neighbors dog to death because it annoyed you and profiting off a business aimed at the mutilation and death of an animal(s). you could kill 100 dogs with your bare hands and get off with next to nothing, many have. but when you create an illegal organization that crosses state lines then fail to pay taxes on top of that.... be prepared to for sphincter molestation beyond anything you can image. mr. sam don't play those games.
 
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Just wondering, but what the heck is little Vick up to now that he is no longer thugging around Va Tech?

marcus_vick_with_guns.jpg
 
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After reading some of the material that 2 of the defendants stated in there guilty plea's, Vick is more than likely going to get a lifetime NFL ban on top of almost certain jail time. two of the defendants both stated they themselves and Vick were involved in 8 dog killings this year alone, by drowning and hanging. And that the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were almost exclusively funded by Vick himself. No organization is going to even touch vick now (or when he is found guilty) of these allegations.
 
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Not so fast my friend!. The biggest thing Vick has to worry about as far as the NFL goes is not the dog fighting. It is the gambling and the most I have heard about from the NFL is two years tops if Vick does what he is supposed to do. And that they have not decided if the suspension will be served at the same time as a prison sentence rather than after it.
 
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A lot of the recent suspensions have been such that they only run if you're on a roster. When the Falcons cut Vick, he'll have to serve his time and have to convince a team to pick him and THEN serve his suspension. If he has to be on a roster to serve his suspension, that eliminates the situation of a team picking him up out of desperation to fill an immediate vacancy.
 
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methomps;905845; said:
A lot of the recent suspensions have been such that they only run if you're on a roster. When the Falcons cut Vick, he'll have to serve his time and have to convince a team to pick him and THEN serve his suspension. If he has to be on a roster to serve his suspension, that eliminates the situation of a team picking him up out of desperation to fill an immediate vacancy.
Right you are my friend, I had forgotten about that facet of it.
 
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methomps;905845; said:
A lot of the recent suspensions have been such that they only run if you're on a roster. When the Falcons cut Vick, he'll have to serve his time and have to convince a team to pick him and THEN serve his suspension. If he has to be on a roster to serve his suspension, that eliminates the situation of a team picking him up out of desperation to fill an immediate vacancy.
They can't cut him until they sue him to get back some of the bonus money. I read somewhere if they cut him then they cannot recoup any of the bonus.
 
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Vick: Villain or scoundrel ... or sympathetic figure?


I have an inclination to sympathize with Michael Vick, and not just because People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals is denouncing him. They are popping champagne corks over at PETA, as Vick is the best thing to happen to the organization's profile and fundraising in years. Remember, the charges against Vick are accusations. The Duke lacrosse mess reminded us that accusations are not the same as guilt and that prosecutors might be unscrupulous. The NFL, the media and popular opinion all seem to accept that because Vick is accused, he must be guilty. He's been treated as guilty -- mocked, effectively suspended from football, deprived of most of his income -- long before any legal determination has been made. There's something deeply sick about the fact that you can go to the NFL's official shop and order a Bills jersey with No. 32 and SIMPSON on the back -- go here and try it yourself -- or a Panthers jersey with CARRUTH on the back, the NFL system actually says "Great choice!" in response, but if you go here and try to order a Falcons' jersey with Vick's name or number, you'll get a message saying your order cannot be processed.


Let me count the reasons I am inclined to sympathize with Michael Vick. One is that Vick became an athletic celebrity at age 16. Since then, has anyone ever said the word "no" to him? Did he ever hear "no" from his coaches, his teachers, Virginia Tech, the Atlanta Falcons, Reebok, Nike, Rawlings, the National Football League, ESPN or any of the sports-media companies, all of which were only too happy to indulge Vick so long as it benefited them? Vick might have believed he had become a Big Man -- someone no one could touch, someone above the rules. People who believe they are above the rules need to learn what integrity means. But only the gifted or philosophical can teach themselves character: The overwhelming majority of men and women need help from others to learn the lessons of character. Many such lessons begin with the word "no." Who in last 10 years has said "no" to Michael Vick? Of his friends, coaches, owners, university presidents or entourage, has anyone taken him aside and said, "Michael, it doesn't matter if you are on national television, it doesn't matter if you are rich, right is right and wrong is wrong." My guess is that no one close to Vick has told him this. In the end, Vick is responsible for his actions. But the contemporary cult of celebrity would not be possible unless the people around celebrities avoided saying "no." If Vick did what he is accused, it simply could not have been a secret to those near him. You so-called friends of Michael Vick, you coaches, team owners, university presidents, hangers-on and entourage -- who among you can look in the mirror today and say you acted with honor?


Next, I feel some sympathy for Vick because of the "send a message" aspect of the case. There's no doubt that many celebrity athletes are getting away with too much. Celebrity athletes as a group have become arrogant, spoiled and even antisocial. This should be a major concern for the NFL, NBA, MLB and ESPN. But even if other celebrity athletes have gotten away with too much in other instances, Vick's case must be treated on its own merits. Some commentators argue that Vick must be dealt with severely to "send a message" about athlete's behavior. No: Vick must be dealt with fairly, to send a message about justice. Seven years ago, the NFL took little action against star Ray Lewis when he pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice in a case involving the deaths of two people. Even read "in the light most favorable," as lawyers say, what Lewis did was stand by watching as two acquaintances stabbed two people to death. Lewis served only 15 days in jail and the NFL fined him $250,000 for conduct detrimental to the league. Eventually, he was back signing lucrative endorsement contracts. He got off lightly. (This is unrelated to the fact that, by all accounts, Lewis became genuinely remorseful and now spends much of his time in charity work; the question is what punishment was fitting based on what was known at the time of the offense.) But Vick shouldn't not be punished severely in order to "send a message" about what wasn't done to Lewis or other previous celebrity-athlete offenders. Vick has no serious prior offenses and does not stand accused of any act of violence against a person. He grew up poor in the crime-and-drugs plagued Ridley Circle housing project of Newport News, Va., yet unlike many around him there did not succomb to the temptation of lawbreaking. If Vick goes to jail and loses his NFL career for a first offense of cruelty to animals and gambling, while Lewis essentially got off scot-free for watching two human beings stabbed to death, that wouldn't be "sending a message." That would be a travesty of justice.


Next, I feel sympathy for Vick because there is racial animus in the current turn of events. If Vick really is guilty of cruelty to animals and associating with lowlife gamblers, these things leave him open to a kind of condemnation that has nothing to do with race. But don't you just sense there are loads of people who are happy to have the chance to condemn the first African-American quarterback who was drafted first overall -- via an accusation that has nothing to do with race? That there might be racial animus against Vick is not an excuse; he is responsible for his actions regardless of what others do or think. But suppose everything about the Michael Vick controversy was exactly the same except Vick was a white quarterback from an upper-middle-class family in Winnetka, Ill., Newport Beach, Calif., or Coral Gables, Fla. Can you say with a straight face that the public reaction and government action would the same?

I swear you can't make this crap up. ESPN is truly stupid for even allowing this tripe to be on their website. Sure it isn't like he killed another human, but dammit making excuses for seemingly (ok alledged) misconduct such as Vick's is probably the stupidest thing I've ever read on that shithole err umm website and that's saying quite a bit.....

Here's the link, if you want to puke. I personally won't be giving that site anymore hits if I can help it.
 
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BuckeyeMike80;906046; said:
Vick: Villain or scoundrel ... or sympathetic figure?




I swear you can't make this crap up. ESPN is truly stupid for even allowing this tripe to be on their website. Sure it isn't like he killed another human, but dammit making excuses for seemingly (ok alledged) misconduct such as Vick's is probably the stupidest thing I've ever read on that shithole err umm website and that's saying quite a bit.....

Here's the link, if you want to puke. I personally won't be giving that site anymore hits if I can help it.

Don't worry, I'm sure there's already an "E!spn Original Entertainment" movie on this saga already in the works. There is no bottom when it comes to that company/network.
 
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espn.com

Co-defendants provide dramatic evidence against Vick


On Friday morning, the last two of Michael Vick's co-defendants in a federal dogfighting case -- Quanis Phillips and Purnell Peace -- pleaded guilty to a charge of conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture. They now add their names and their knowledge to testimony from four cooperating witnesses and Tony Taylor, a co-defendant who earlier agreed to testify against Vick. With the evidence piling up against the Atlanta Falcons' quarterback, where does that leave the case? Here are the latest questions and answers.
Now that they have pleaded guilty, what do Peace and Phillips provide to the government's case against Vick that wasn't there before?

Both of Vick's former cohorts in the alleged dogfighting scheme will bring dramatic and powerful testimony against Vick. The most difficult testimony for Vick to counter will be Peace's description of a doubleheader dogfight in March 2003.

Continued.....
 
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