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Maybe all JT's rings and long history of success doesn't mean he's a good coach.

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Clarity said:
I think he must mean that if JT can't bring in the level of talent John Cooper did, then we don't know if he can win his sixth national title on the college level.

Which, for obvious reasons, is funny. :) Particularly as we sit here poised as one of the only schools generally considered capable of making USC work for the title. Hmm, and we play two of the others.
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Well for one there is a big difference between winning at OSU and YSU and JT has yet to win one on his own at OSU. Do I think he will win a few ? PROBABLY!
 
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NOTREDAMECHIEF said:
Well for one there is a big difference between winning at OSU and YSU and JT has yet to win one on his own at OSU. Do I think he will win a few ? PROBABLY!
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Aha! There we go, glad we could talk you off the ledge. You were trying hard to sell the notion that you question JT's ability as a coach.

Speaking of USC, Chief, I saw your .sig. I think you'd be much better off setting reasonable goals. I won't use Navy, despite ND being lucky to scrape out a win against them just 2 seasons ago. So let's run with Pittsburgh since you lost to them last year, and they're ranked higher than you in the preseason this year.

Set realistic goals so you don't get overwhelmed.

BEAT PITT!
 
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NOTREDAMECHIEF said:
Same point, if all of those draft picks a few years ago were not already at OSU ther would be no NC either. So what is your point?

It is a civil discussion so what s the big deal?
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Here's the point. You argue that Tressel won a NC with another coach's players. Yet, a big part of that championship season consisted of players brought in by Tressel to complement the group in place. Further, the 2002 group was a young team. What guarantees were there that the other coach would have produced the number of draft choices that ultimately came out of that class? Are you saying that signing a letter of intent with the other coach was a guarantee of an NFL selection regardless of the coaching staff? So again, what's your point?
 
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NOTREDAMECHIEF said:
The point is that you will NEVER know if your old coach would have won a NC with those players and you have yet to find out if JT can win a NC with his own players.
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You sound like a 5 year old when making that argument.
Two things.
First, I can tell you one thing for damn sure, Cooper NEVER would have won a NC with those players.
Second, MoC and Gamble were both JTs recruits, did you forget about their contribution to the NC?

LightningRod said:
Here's the point. You argue that Tressel won a NC with another coach's players. Yet, a big part of that championship season consisted of players brought in by Tressel to complement the group in place.
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Heh, beat me to it!
 
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I am certainly not saying that JT in not a good coach but you have to agree that he cant take all the credit for your NC. He has yet to prove that he can win the big one on his own at this level.
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Pretty lame post there man. If we use that logic, Urban Meyer has yet to prove that he can coach.......he's used the talent of past coaches at BG and Utah and what they brought in. Thad Matta can't coach, his swell of success in such a short time is related directly to Jim Obriens nucleus at OSU......... :roll2:

You can have all the talent in the world but not win.......Coop demonstrated that. The truth is, Tressel is 3-1 vs Michigan........3-1 in bowl games........and has won a national championship........regardless of who's players were in place that is damn good coaching.

You can only wish that Weis will have half of the amount of success of Jim Tressel. Until then.........I think Clarity said it best.....set your goals at a realistic standpoint..........beat Pitt!
 
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It looks to me like NDC is getting fresh excuses ready for his teams failures this year. SOS is played out, so he's getting ready for the big "Weiss can't win because Willingham didn't leave him good enough players" argument. Gotta plan ahead, eh Chief?


BEAT PITT!!!
 
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NOTREDAMECHIEF said:
And Tressel had most of his success with another coach's players...
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And how many did Fat Boy draft while he was with the Pats? None.

Oh yeah, too bad he was not able to keep Lawrence Wilson who had already verballed to notre shame. Sounds like he is going to be a stud.
 
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NOTREDAMECHIEF said:
LOL! Sorry, and when JT has 4 SB rings.....
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...as a head coach?

NOTREDAMECHIEF said:
The point is that you will NEVER know if your old coach would have won a NC with those players and you have yet to find out if JT can win a NC with his own players.

I am certainly not saying that JT in not a good coach but you have to agree that he cant take all the credit for your NC. He has yet to prove that he can win the big one on his own at this level.
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This stupid-ass argument gets dumber every time I see it. Criminy, based on this reasoning, Lou Holtz won the NC in 1988 with Gerry Faust's players - it was his 3rd year at ND. He never did win one with "his own players"...:roll2:
 
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NOTREDAMECHIEF said:
Well for one there is a big difference between winning at OSU and YSU and JT has yet to win one on his own at OSU. Do I think he will win a few ? PROBABLY!
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You know that recruiting isn't everything. The training and development of the players is easily as important. Not only did JT recruit some of those players but he also trained those players to play as a team and play JT ball. The comraderie at tOSU is more apparant now than it ever has been since i've been a fan. The fact of the matter is that Coop would not have wn a national title with those players playing his ball game and JT did.
 
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Sure, they weren't all his recruits....but 1998 was the most talented tOSU team I have been able to see. Coop did not take them to the promised land which was also the case numerous times in the 90's. JT took what he had and won. It was not always pretty, but stat lines do not always win games.

To doubt Jim Tressel's ability given his track record is misguided and flat-out ignorant.
 
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And going by NDchump's logic, if ND wins a bowl game at the end of this season and that's a big IF..Charlie Weis would not still get credit. And before CW's players come in..CW would probably be fired for another 6-6 season.
 
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I'm still sitting here wondering how the Chimp has determined its easier to win a NC at 1-AA than 1-A. When you are the coach at a 1-AA school the teams you play have 1-AA talent as well do they not? Also isn't it harder to actually win a NC on the field in a structured tournament than to rely on bullshit like media polls and SOS? Winning a championship at any level(as a HC that is) is special. Winning 4 in 6 years is remarkable.

Can't wait to hear the view from this mystical 50's time warped, green skied, little-boys-dressed-as-leprechaun blowing world ND Chump lives in.
 
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