Make the Call: Most controversial Buckeye Football loss of all time

[cincibuck]

2007 Illinois. We played pretty blah to start, but we got hosed on that long TD run that got punched out of the back of the endzone. I still don't understand why we get fucked over on a majority of the replay calls in our own stadium.

I haven't seen that game replay in some time, but If I recall correctly JT never pulled the red flag out of his pocket so it never went to replay. Perhaps he was thinking a) the refs will call for a replay b) the guy in the booth will call it. c) this is Illinois and it's the first quarter, why waste my red flag? The OSU coaches in the press box evidently didn't tell JT to toss the red flag.

Was this the game when replay was requested and the camera angle they needed wasn't operating?

 

[cincibuck]

...they punted, Miami got a big return, and they were able to send the game to OT. But on that punt return, AJ Hawk was blocked in the back as he zeroed in - as blatant a block in the back as you will see. If called correctly, that would have put Miami on their side of the field with about 2 min. Instead, they were in FG range after the return.

On the PI against Miami in the endzone, I'm still not sure whether it was PI. But I am sure that it was justice.

Yep, the block in the back took place in front of a ref too.

 

[buckeyesin07]

I haven't seen that game replay in some time, but If I recall correctly JT never pulled the red flag out of his pocket so it never went to replay. Perhaps he was thinking a) the refs will call for a replay b) the guy in the booth will call it. c) this is Illinois and it's the first quarter, why waste my red flag? The OSU coaches in the press box evidently didn't tell JT to toss the red flag.

Was this the game when replay was requested and the camera angle they needed wasn't operating?

Not sure what you're talking about with the references to a red flag and JT not throwing one:

Q. Who can initiate a review of an official's call?
A. Only the Technical Advisor serving as the review official for the game. Neither the game officials nor the coaches may ask for a review.

http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-footbl/archive/090605aaa.html

The fact of the matter is that JT was powerless to do anything to cause a review. I'm still not sure how the officials missed that--it was clear the ball was fumbled even at regular speed in watching the game, and the review official certainly should have been able to see that with instant replay given that he had plenty of time to do so, what with the players needing to lineup about 70 yards from where they lined up on the previous play.

 

[cincibuck]

Most of my nightmare memories begin with Ron Springs slipping, but on the Bucks' first possession Pepi Pearson got caught from behind on a long run. First and goal inside the ten and that incredible offense settled for a field goal. That set the tone for the rest of the day.

I have at least four Rose Bowl games from back in the days when the Pac 8 refs were used when Big Ten teams were hosed. The one that is foremost in my mind is the 71 game with Stanford. Forward lateral call on an intercepted pass that cost the bucks a TD, then they called Colzie for spiking the ball at the end of his interception run, putting the ball out of field goal range. Michigan and Bo lost at least 1 NC on questionable calls in the Rose Bowl.

It's the memory of those games that makes me so adamant that any NC playoff system has to include a rotation of final sites that includes the Midwest and the East.

 

[cincibuck]

Not sure what you're talking about with the references to a red flag and JT not throwing one:



http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-footbl/archive/090605aaa.html

The fact of the matter is that JT was powerless to do anything to cause a review. I'm still not sure how the officials missed that--it was clear the ball was fumbled even at regular speed in watching the game, and the review official certainly should have been able to see that with instant replay given that he had plenty of time to do so, what with the players needing to lineup about 70 yards from where they lined up on the previous play.

Wait a minute. Was this a rules change I missed? Maybe I'm confusing Sunday rules with Saturday rules, but IIRC coaches had one challenge per half in 2007. I also seem to remember the announcers wondering why JT didn't use a challenge. Now it may be that the officials told both coaches that replay wasn't working before the game began and didn't tell the announcers. that would explain why JT didn't challenge, or call a TO, or why the guy in the booth didn't say something.

 

[Poe McKnoe]

Wait a minute. Was this a rules change I missed? Maybe I'm confusing Sunday rules with Saturday rules, but IIRC coaches had one challenge per half in 2007. I also seem to remember the announcers wondering why JT didn't use a challenge. Now it may be that the officials told both coaches that replay wasn't working before the game began and didn't tell the announcers. that would explain why JT didn't challenge, or call a TO, or why the guy in the booth didn't say something.

I was thinking college coaches had the red flag. They at least had the power to call a time out and actively challenge the play, not hope for the replay officials to buzz down to the field. I also remember hearing some "replay" issues at the beginning of that game, though not sure what issues could be considering it's a live broadcast and you could easily find a controllable feed somewhere?

 

[Zurp]

Wait a minute. Was this a rules change I missed? Maybe I'm confusing Sunday rules with Saturday rules, but IIRC coaches had one challenge per half in 2007. I also seem to remember the announcers wondering why JT didn't use a challenge. Now it may be that the officials told both coaches that replay wasn't working before the game began and didn't tell the announcers. that would explain why JT didn't challenge, or call a TO, or why the guy in the booth didn't say something.

I was thinking college coaches had the red flag. They at least had the power to call a time out and actively challenge the play, not hope for the replay officials to buzz down to the field. I also remember hearing some "replay" issues at the beginning of that game, though not sure what issues could be considering it's a live broadcast and you could easily find a controllable feed somewhere?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_replay_in_American_and_Canadian_football

Once per game, each head coach may also call a timeout and challenge the ruling on the previous play before the next play starts. A coach must have at least one timeout remaining in order to challenge (teams receive three timeouts per half). If the challenge is successful and the on-field ruling is overturned, the team keeps its timeout and is allowed only one more challenge. If unsuccessful, the team loses its timeout and is allowed no more challenges.

I do know that when replay started in college football, the coaches did not get a challenge - that was added later. I don't know how much later. According to wikipedia (same article) 2004 was the first year in the Big Ten. Most other conferences picked it up in 2005.
I was sitting on the west side, C deck, about the 5 yard line near the open end - about as far away as you can get. I assumed that when it wasn't challenged, it must have been obviously called correctly on the field. I remember thinking, "that was the first quarter. Even if the referees screwed that up, Ohio State should have had plenty of time to come back and win it." I don't know that controversies happen in the first quarter.

 

[cincibuck]

using "College Football rule book 2007" I got this wiki post:

In college, coaches are allowed one challenge per game by first requesting a timeout. Otherwise, a replay official in the press box observes all plays. If he deems a ruling may be in error, he notifies the officials on the field to interrupt the game before the beginning of the next play. The replay official performs the review and relays the decision to the referee, who announces the result. Not every conference employs replay, which is optional.

So Tressel could have called a time out. I seem to recall a post game interview in which he said it was too early in the game to either lose a time out or lose his challenge. Hind sight.

Also believe that Pamon was found guilty of betting (not necessarily on this game)and fired by the Big Ten.

 

[buckeyesin07]

using "College Football rule book 2007" I got this wiki post:


So Tressel could have called a time out. I seem to recall a post game interview in which he said it was too early in the game to either lose a time out or lose his challenge. Hind sight.

Also believe that Pamon was found guilty of betting (not necessarily on this game)and fired by the Big Ten.

Yeah, not sure when the rule changed then, but pretty clearly coaches cannot challenge now (at least not in Big Ten games, which the OSU-Illinois game in '07 clearly was). And I don't ever recall college coaches throwing red flags onto the field like NFL coaches do.

 

[Zurp]

Yeah, not sure when the rule changed then, but pretty clearly coaches cannot challenge now (at least not in Big Ten games, which the OSU-Illinois game in '07 clearly was). And I don't ever recall college coaches throwing red flags onto the field like NFL coaches do.

http://www.dfoa.com/attachments/article/69/2013-14_Football_Rule_Book.pdf
Rule 12, Section 5, Article 1:

b. The head coach of either team may request that the game be stopped and a play be reviewed by challenging the on-field ruling.
1. A head coach initiates this challenge by taking a team timeout before the ball is next legally put in play (Exception: Rule 12-3-5-c) and informing the referee that he is challenging the ruling of the previous play. If a head coach’s challenge is successful, he retains the challenge, which he may use only once more during the game. Thus, a coach may have a total of two challenges if and only if his initial challenge is successful.

So you're right that the coaches don't throw red flags onto the field. But pretty clearly the coaches can challenge now.

 

[WoodyWorshiper]

Most of my nightmare memories begin with Ron Springs slipping, but on the Bucks' first possession Pepi Pearson got caught from behind on a long run. First and goal inside the ten and that incredible offense settled for a field goal. That set the tone for the rest of the day.

I have at least four Rose Bowl games from back in the days when the Pac 8 refs were used when Big Ten teams were hosed. The one that is foremost in my mind is the 71 game with Stanford. Forward lateral call on an intercepted pass that cost the bucks a TD, then they called Colzie for spiking the ball at the end of his interception run, putting the ball out of field goal range. Michigan and Bo lost at least 1 NC on questionable calls in the Rose Bowl.

It's the memory of those games that makes me so adamant that any NC playoff system has to include a rotation of final sites that includes the Midwest and the East.

Ron never slipped, Shawn did.

Peace

 

[cincibuck]

Ron never slipped, Shawn did.

Peace

Thanks.

 

[WoodyWorshiper]

OK, here's one....

The Touchdown That Didn't Count
Ohio State was in the Spartans' end zone. There was no doubt about that. But had the Buckeyes arrived there in time to keep their No. 1 ranking?

By now Woody Hayes may have stopped eating furniture, with reels of film for dessert. He may have quit shredding photographs of Big Ten Commissioner Wayne Duke. He may have finally turned away from growling at his Enemies List, fleshed out with such recent additions as Referee Gene Calhoun, Field Judge Robert Daganhardt and Back Judge William Kingzett, men who last weekend took their places next to Hitler, Tojo and Mussolini in the state of Ohio. If Woody has calmed down, it is good for his digestion, but nothing has changed since last Saturday afternoon in East Lansing, Mich. when perverse fate, a clock or incompetence (depending on your loyalties) knocked off a college football team that was supposed to be mightier than a Divine Presence in a face mask.

To give it a memorable name, let's call it the Bizarre Bowl. For what happened on Nov. 9, 1974, in an athletic contest that was expected to be a normal 35-0 victory for No. 1 Ohio State over a group of undernourished and culturally deprived Michigan State Spartans defies, even at this hour, the logic of the mentally healthy everywhere.

That Michigan State scored one of the epic, colossal, classic, shocking (choose any two) upsets in the history of men and boys, 16-13, is no longer a secret on the globe. But exactly how it was managed in those last chaotic seconds is likely to remain a slight mystery because it was the greatest ending nobody ever saw.

Ignoring for a moment all of the madness that came before the game's final play, this is the way the scene will be etched in the minds of the 78,533 in Spartan Stadium and the multitudes tuned in on ABC-TV. The clock is ticking off four...three...two...one; a ball squirts through the quarterback's legs with the Buckeyes inside the Spartans' one-yard line and everybody not quite in the proper place; a guy grabs the ball as it conveniently bounces into his hands; he crashes into the end zone; the head linesman signals touchdown while other officials signal time has expired. Both teams take turns celebrating the win although none of us will know who won, actually, for 45 more minutes.

Entire story: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1089234/index.htm

11/9/1974 - Michigan State 16 Ohio State 13

This is the one, and it's hands down.

Coach Hayes is my favorite "sports-personality" of all-time, with Archie being a very close second. The "Controversy" to me in this game will always be why he didn't put the ball in Arch's hands to win the game. Champ Henson was a bitch in 1972, never came completely back from the ACL tear. Archie was a Heisman winner in the backfield that final play. and Coach went the other way. I'll love him to the day I die, but not giving the ball to Archie in that situation was a really bad decision.

JMO

Peace

 

[Dryden]

On 2007 Illinois: Coaches didn't throw a flag to challenge, instead they needed to call time out and during that stoppage state to the official that it was because they wanted to challenge. If they won the challenge they got the TO back but could not challenge anymore. Of course, since all plays were supposedly reviewed anyway many coaches opted not to burn the timeout. The initial rate of success of coaches' challenges when college replay started in 2006 was about 17% by the date of the closest relevant article I could find.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2006-10-19-replay_x.htm?csp=34'

I was in the south stands for that game and since the play was in the opposite end zone I could not see it with certainty, but I remember distinctly that JT should have called time out because from my view 150 yards away and behind the play it looked like the ball came out at around the 2, then I got a text from my wife about 15 seconds later telling me to tell JT to call timeout because the TV replay showed the ball was out. I yelled but apparently Tress didn't hear me. Sorry.

 

[buckeyesin07]

http://www.dfoa.com/attachments/article/69/2013-14_Football_Rule_Book.pdf
Rule 12, Section 5, Article 1:


So you're right that the coaches don't throw red flags onto the field. But pretty clearly the coaches can challenge now.

Thanks for clearing that up. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the Big Ten's website contains a statement that is pretty much directly in opposition to the real rule.