LOTR, Hobbit geek-fest

[buckeyegrad]

See that is a conceit I don't have. I have never felt a need to shoehorn parts of stories into a fit that the author never intended.

Conceit? Shoehorn? Author's intent? Did you not read my second sentence:

Granted, Tolkien never answered the question himself, hence why any conversation is speculation; but there are answers [note my use of the plural indicating that there is not one single correct answer] that fit better than others.

Oh, and despite AKAK's warning, it's on.....

 

[knapplc]

Here's something that always bothered me about LOTR. You know who the biggest bastards in Middle-Earth are? It's not the orcs, it's not trolls or any other flunky. It's not Saruman, it's not the Nazgul, it isn't even Sauron himself.

It's the Eagles.

Why? Simple. They have overwhelming numbers in the air. They are a near-unstoppable force. Even at the height of Sauron's power, with the Host of Gondor sitting at his gate fully inside his trap, with the battle raging and the outcome assured, the Eagles come sailing in and dive-bomb the Nazgul. Why? Because they're tough bastards, and despite the terror and power of the Nazgul, the Eagles have numbers on them, and could drive them right out of the sky.

What does this mean? This means that the safest, fastest, least costly and most effective way to get the ring to Orodruin would be to outfit about 200 Eagles with Gandalf, Aragorn, the Ring Bearer and maybe fill the rest out with archers or something, and have those bad boys sail right over the Ephel Duath from a base in eastern Rohan and drop that sucker in the Cracks of Doom.

The whole War of the Ring would have been mop-up duty. They could have saved the whole Fellowship instead of losing Boromir and Gandalf (sort of), they could have averted Saruman's treachery for the most part and they would have saved countless lives. Theoden would be alive, Theodred his son, countless warriors from Gondor and Rohan would be alive or unmaimed.

But would the Eagles do that? No. Those bastards had to sit around on their inaccessible perches way up in the Misty Mountains chewing on their sheep and basically loafing around while all the world trembled under the threat of Mordor. Finally, after all appears lost, only after thousands die in the Pelennor Fields, only after who-knows-how-many perish at the Morannan, only then do these putzes get off their tail feathers and get involved.

The Eagles aren't heroes. They're lazy bastards who care for nothing but themselves, and only get involved when it appears a near-certainty that Sauron will win and overrun all of Middle-Earth. Only THEN do they finally care.

Jerks.

 

[buckeyegrad]

Here's something that always bothered me about LOTR. You know who the biggest bastards in Middle-Earth are? It's not the orcs, it's not trolls or any other flunky. It's not Saruman, it's not the Nazgul, it isn't even Sauron himself.

It's the Eagles.

Why? Simple. They have overwhelming numbers in the air. They are a near-unstoppable force. Even at the height of Sauron's power, with the Host of Gondor sitting at his gate fully inside his trap, with the battle raging and the outcome assured, the Eagles come sailing in and dive-bomb the Nazgul. Why? Because they're tough bastards, and despite the terror and power of the Nazgul, the Eagles have numbers on them, and could drive them right out of the sky.

What does this mean? This means that the safest, fastest, least costly and most effective way to get the ring to Orodruin would be to outfit about 200 Eagles with Gandalf, Aragorn, the Ring Bearer and maybe fill the rest out with archers or something, and have those bad boys sail right over the Ephel Duath from a base in eastern Rohan and drop that sucker in the Cracks of Doom.

The whole War of the Ring would have been mop-up duty. They could have saved the whole Fellowship instead of losing Boromir and Gandalf (sort of), they could have averted Saruman's treachery for the most part and they would have saved countless lives. Theoden would be alive, Theodred his son, countless warriors from Gondor and Rohan would be alive or unmaimed.

But would the Eagles do that? No. Those bastards had to sit around on their inaccessible perches way up in the Misty Mountains chewing on their sheep and basically loafing around while all the world trembled under the threat of Mordor. Finally, after all appears lost, only after thousands die in the Pelennor Fields, only after who-knows-how-many perish at the Morannan, only then do these putzes get off their tail feathers and get involved.

The Eagles aren't heroes. They're lazy bastards who care for nothing but themselves, and only get involved when it appears a near-certainty that Sauron will win and overrun all of Middle-Earth. Only THEN do they finally care.

Jerks.

I've never understood this argument for two reasons:

1. They would be tempted to take the ring just like everyone else.
2. Sauron would easily see the eagles coming and could just wait for them at Mt. Doom. I highly doubt the ring would have ever made it into the fires of Orodruin if Sauran was present and waiting for it.

 

[knapplc]

If it was that easy, Sauron would have been at Orodruin waiting for Frodo, too. It's not like Frodo and Sam didn't go bumbling all about Mordor creating a ruckus.

But that's why you do it from Eastern Rohan, or Ithilien if you want to be even closer. What's the flight time from Ithilien to Orodruin? A few minutes by Eagle? They made it from the Morannan to Orodruin in just a few minutes to rescue Frodo and Sam from the ruin of the fiery mountain. That's a pretty quick reaction time for Sauron. And if we're going to go with the premise that Sauron would have seen the Eagles gathering and made preparations for them, then we have to answer the question of why he didn't prep his Nazgul for the Eagles' onset at the final battle. Apparently, observant though he may be, Sauron cannot see everything.

 

[buckeyegrad]

If it was that easy, Sauron would have been at Orodruin waiting for Frodo, too. It's not like Frodo and Sam didn't go bumbling all about Mordor creating a ruckus.

And yet, Sauron did not know the hobbits, or the ring for that matter, had entered into Mordor until Frodo placed the ring on his finger at the Cracks of Doom. Why was this? This is where the blind hand Eru Iluvatar comes into play and that only Frodo was destined to take the ring to Mt. Doom. It was that blind hand that kept Sauron from discovering them--that, and his incorrect belief that Aragorn had the ring, and as Gandalf points out, it was impossible for him to even conceive that someone would try to destroy the ring. Any other being other than Frodo would have failed by either falling to the temptation of the ring or being caught by Sauron.

But that's why you do it from Eastern Rohan, or Ithilien if you want to be even closer. What's the flight time from Ithilien to Orodruin? A few minutes by Eagle? They made it from the Morannan to Orodruin in just a few minutes to rescue Frodo and Sam from the ruin of the fiery mountain. That's a pretty quick reaction time for Sauron. And if we're going to go with the premise that Sauron would have seen the Eagles gathering and made preparations for them, then we have to answer the question of why he didn't prep his Nazgul for the Eagles' onset at the final battle. Apparently, observant though he may be, Sauron cannot see everything.

Actually, I find it hard to believe a gathering of the eagles would have escaped Sauron's notice--after all, he had spies everywhere and he would have taken them as a serious threat unlike the hobbits, who seem to have escaped his attention altogether until he realized one of them had the ring.

Plus, he probably did know that the eagles were joining the battle at Morannan, but it didn't matter. His forces would have still won the day if the ring had not been destroyed--eagles or no eagles.

 

[The KSB]

Here's something that always bothered me about LOTR. You know who the biggest bastards in Middle-Earth are? It's not the orcs, it's not trolls or any other flunky. It's not Saruman, it's not the Nazgul, it isn't even Sauron himself.

It's the Eagles.

Why? Simple. They have overwhelming numbers in the air. They are a near-unstoppable force. Even at the height of Sauron's power, with the Host of Gondor sitting at his gate fully inside his trap, with the battle raging and the outcome assured, the Eagles come sailing in and dive-bomb the Nazgul. Why? Because they're tough bastards, and despite the terror and power of the Nazgul, the Eagles have numbers on them, and could drive them right out of the sky.

What does this mean? This means that the safest, fastest, least costly and most effective way to get the ring to Orodruin would be to outfit about 200 Eagles with Gandalf, Aragorn, the Ring Bearer and maybe fill the rest out with archers or something, and have those bad boys sail right over the Ephel Duath from a base in eastern Rohan and drop that sucker in the Cracks of Doom.

The whole War of the Ring would have been mop-up duty. They could have saved the whole Fellowship instead of losing Boromir and Gandalf (sort of), they could have averted Saruman's treachery for the most part and they would have saved countless lives. Theoden would be alive, Theodred his son, countless warriors from Gondor and Rohan would be alive or unmaimed.

But would the Eagles do that? No. Those bastards had to sit around on their inaccessible perches way up in the Misty Mountains chewing on their sheep and basically loafing around while all the world trembled under the threat of Mordor. Finally, after all appears lost, only after thousands die in the Pelennor Fields, only after who-knows-how-many perish at the Morannan, only then do these putzes get off their tail feathers and get involved.

The Eagles aren't heroes. They're lazy bastards who care for nothing but themselves, and only get involved when it appears a near-certainty that Sauron will win and overrun all of Middle-Earth. Only THEN do they finally care.

Jerks.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqVD0swvWU&feature=fvwrel"]How Lord of The Rings Should Have Ended - YouTube[/ame]

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

Found this on Reddit

New pics from the Hobbit movie.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

If it was that easy, Sauron would have been at Orodruin waiting for Frodo, too. It's not like Frodo and Sam didn't go bumbling all about Mordor creating a ruckus.

But that's why you do it from Eastern Rohan, or Ithilien if you want to be even closer. What's the flight time from Ithilien to Orodruin? A few minutes by Eagle? They made it from the Morannan to Orodruin in just a few minutes to rescue Frodo and Sam from the ruin of the fiery mountain. That's a pretty quick reaction time for Sauron. And if we're going to go with the premise that Sauron would have seen the Eagles gathering and made preparations for them, then we have to answer the question of why he didn't prep his Nazgul for the Eagles' onset at the final battle. Apparently, observant though he may be, Sauron cannot see everything.

Duh, obviously - he didn't have The Ring. Did you even, like, read the books?

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNIKq8ZZ_Zw"]The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Trailer 2 [HD] - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Muck]

The Hobbit: "sales are not very great" wrote Tolkien

​

The Hobbit, by J.R.R. Tolkien, was one of the most popular novels of the 20th century, but a letter by the author just after the book was published reveals that sales were initially slow and that a second printing may not happen.

The letter was sent from Tolkien to Leeds author Arthur Ransome in 1937, shortly after The Hobbit was published. It is part of a collection of Tolkien's writing held at the University of Leeds, where Tolkien taught for five years.

At the time, Ransome was the better-known writer and he had suggested several stylistic tweaks to The Hobbit mainly concerning Tolkien's use of the word "man". Tolkien, who was known for taking umbrage over his publisher's edits, cheerfully agreed to several of Ransome's suggestions. He promised to send Ransome a revised copy of the book "if there is a reprint" and added "sales are not very great".

.../cont/....

 

[ochre]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cBlRbrB_Gnchttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cBlRbrB_Gnc

 

[buckeyegrad]

So, has anyone seen it yet?

 

[Magua]

So, has anyone seen it yet?

Me.

I saw it at Midnight opening night with my girlfriend and am going to see it with my buddy again this evening.

I enjoyed it a lot. There's a lot of history/backstory with the dwarves, elves, wizards, and orcs which I found to be good. The main part with Golem/Smeagol is really good too because his split personality really shines and he is batshit crazy lol.

I thought there was a lot more action/excitement in this one than there was in The Fellowship of the Ring, as well as more humor.

 

[buckeyegrad]

Me.

I saw it at Midnight opening night with my girlfriend and am going to see it with my buddy again this evening.

I enjoyed it a lot. There's a lot of history/backstory with the dwarves, elves, wizards, and orcs which I found to be good. The main part with Golem/Smeagol is really good too because his split personality really shines and he is bat[Mark May] crazy lol.

I thought there was a lot more action/excitement in this one than there was in The Fellowship of the Ring, as well as more humor.

I was thinking of taking my eight year old nephew to watch it. Do you think it too long for someone his age? What about too scary? I remember having the Hobbit read to me at about his age and Gollum gave me the creeps.

 

[Buckeye doc]

I was thinking of taking my eight year old nephew to watch it. Do you think it too long for someone his age? What about too scary? I remember having the Hobbit read to me at about his age and Gollum gave me the creeps.

I saw it Sat. night and thought it was good, not great. I had told our 7 year old daughter I would see it first to determine if she would be allowed to see it. When we got there, there were at least 5 kids younger than her just in the lobby of our tiny local theater. I think for our daughter the bigger issue will be that it is too long. The violence is more cartoonish than scary. Gollum is definitely more crazy and entertaining than menacing, in my imo.