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LB A.J. Hawk (2x All-American, Lombardi Trophy, National Champion, Super Bowl Champion)

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honestly probably not a top 10 all timer in b10, bestbuck has a good point that the relevancy factor is to strong to get a good read on it now. 10 years from now when youve seen probably what 17 or so years of football youll realize he was special, but probably not even a generational player at theosu...
 
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NFBuck;874753; said:
One other thing about Big Kat is that he was so spectacular as a frosh, that he never really improved significantly from there. A.J. got better with each season.
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I have to respectfully disagree. He did improve, however Andy was targeted much more because he was the focal point of that defense. I remember plays when he was triple-teamed. It's not that Andy got worse or stayed the same, it's that A.J. got better and was allowed to flourish because his defense had so many ways to hurt an offense. Andy's freshman year, the Buckeye defense returned 10 of 11 starters: Matt Finkes, Mike Vrabel, Winfield Garnett, Luke Fickell, Greg Bellesari, Ryan Miller (try to forget about his news career when thinking of him as a football player) :) , Shawn Springs, Ty Howard, Rob Kelley, Damon Moore. A better way to ask this question might begin by looking at the supporting casts? Which would you rather have around you? Here's the lineup from their final seasons...

Andy Katzenmoyer (The Kat)

apfbckatzenmoyer090598.gif


DEFENSE


DE 94 RODNEY BAILEY (6-3, 255, So.) Play-making end...2 sacks vs. Iowa...14 tackles; 4 sacks in '98...9 tackles last year vs. Michigan...quick, athletic...14 starts.
DT 79 RYAN PICKETT (6-3, 290, Fr.)True freshman with bright future...physical...has started last 5 games...sack vs. NU & 4 tackles vs. Toledo...18 total stops.
DT 73 JOE BROWN (6-6, 285, So.)One of team's quickest linemen...18 tackles and 4 tackles for loss in '98...sack vs. Indiana....playing with a plate in left thumb.
DE 60 BRENT JOHNSON (6-4, 265, So.)Most improved & most consistent end this spring & fall...leading tackler along the "D" line...32 tackles, 5 sacks...Int vs. NU.
BLB 32 NA'IL DIGGS (6-4, 235, So.)Play-maker...returned fumble 47 yds. for a TD vs. Ill...1st w/ 67 stops & 14 TFLs...1 INT and 2 PBU...3 sacks vs. Minn.
MLB 45 ANDY KATZENMOYER (6-4, 255, Jr.)One of college football's best...4th in tackles with 59 in '98...career-high 12 stops vs. MU...Awards candidate...48 career TFLs.
WLB 35 JERRY RUDZINSKI (6-2, 225, Sr.*)Academic All-America candidate...co-captain & leader...recovered PSU fmb for TD...savvy...44 tackles; 8 TFLs, 3 sacks...24 starts.
CB 11 ANTOINE WINFIELD (5-9, 180, Sr.)All-American...Thorpe Award candidate...3rd in tackles with 62...has 2 sacks, 12 PBUs in '98...No. 5 in solos at OSU (212).
FS 1 GARY BERRY (6-0, 195, Jr.)Called "the top athlete among the DBs" and is one of the team's fastest...best football is ahead of him...39 tackles, 2 TFLs, sack.
SS 13 DAMON MOORE (5-11, 200, Sr.*)Fierce hitter...a force in the secondary...runs the show...12th career Int. vs. MSU...2nd on team w/ 64 tackles...5 TFLs, & 3 PBUs.
CB 19 AHMED PLUMMER (6-0, 190, Jr.) Student of the game who is fast becoming a big-time player...made 8th career INT vs. Minnesota...hits and covers...12 PBUs in '98.



A. J. Hawk (The Hawk)

p1_hawk.jpg


DEFENSE


DE97David Patterson**6-3285Jr.11 starts in 34 career appearances ... credited with 3 tackles-for-loss vs. MSU ... 7 career sacks, 11 TFL, 46 total tackles 99Jay Richardson*6-6276Jr.
LT94Marcus Green***6-3290Sr.-5th20 starts and 44 appearances as a Buckeye ... veteran performer with D-line ... 80 career tackles and 3 sacks to his credit 97David Patterson**6-3285Jr.
RT90Quinn Pitcock**6-3295Jr.21 starts in 35 appearances ... 90 total tackles for career, 15.5 for loss ... blocked punt vs. Northwestern 98Joel Penton**6-5290Jr.
DE57Mike Kudla***6-3265Sr.Has 32 tackles on the D-Line ... with 8.5 for loss, 6.5 sacks and a forced fumble ... in 2nd year as a starter at rush end 50Vernon Gholston6-4260So.
SLB42Bobby Carpenter***6-3255Sr.4th with 49 stops in 2005, 11 vs. Texas and MSU ... 191 car. tackles, 23.5 for loss and 14.5 sacks ... 5 career games with 10+ tackles 33James Laurinaitis6-3231Fr.
MLB51Anthony Schlegel*6-1251Sr.-5thRecovered SDSU fumble leading to OSU score ... 149 tackles, 17.5 TFL, 5.5 sacks at OSU ... former 2-yr. starter/capt. at Air Force 5Mike D?Andrea***6-3248Jr.
WLB47A.J. Hawk***6-1240Sr.102 tackles leads team ... 19 stops, 10 solo vs. MSU ... returned blkd. punt 8 yds. for TD, forced fumble, 1 sack vs. N?western 52John Kerr6-1246Jr.
LCB26Ashton Youboty**6-1188Jr.Blocked FG ret. (72 yds.) vs. MSU ... nabbed team-best 4 INTs as a soph. ... Thorpe Award candidate ... 44 tackles, 8 PBU in ?05 2Malcom Jenkins6-1180Fr.
RCB6Tyler Everett***5-11202Sr.Veteran of 47 gms. ... 14 starts ... 3 career INTs and 94 total tackles ... skills to play corner or safety positions ... 25 tackles this season 2Malcom Jenkins6-1180Fr.
FS21Nate Salley***6-3220Sr.Big hitter ... skilled athlete, can cover large areas of real estate ... co-captain ... Thorpe Award candidate ... 47 gms. played, 30 starts 32Brandon Mitchell**6-3205Jr.
SS9Donte Whitner**5-11205Jr.15 starts in 32 games as a Buckeye ... ret. INT 26 yds. for TD vs. Miami (Ohio) ... 151 career tackles, including 10 at MINN 3Jamario O?Neal6-1180Fr.
NB32Brandon Mitchell6-3205Jr.57-yard INT return for TD at Indiana 34Rob Harley**6-2202Sr.-5th


I'd take A.J.'s defense any day. Note the ages of Andy's guys up front. Teams had to run against the 1998 defense because the secondary was so good, so that's what they did against a young (and not as talented) group that compiled the front 7.

Either way, we're lucky to have had them both... and a certain # 33 playing now just continues the Buckeye LB folklore.

James Laurinaitis (The Animal)

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They were definitely close as far as I'm concerned. Not sure who I would give the edge to, but found this an interesting measurement:

Solo Tackles ? Career ...........................................................Years
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]1. 283 Chris Spielman ....................................................1984-87 [/FONT]
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]2. 259 Tom Cousineau ....................................................1975-78 [/FONT]
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]3. 256 Marcus Marek ....................................................1979-82 [/FONT]
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]4. 239 Steve Tovar .........................................................1989-92 [/FONT]
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]5. 228 Mike Doss ...........................................................1999-02 [/FONT]
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]6. 197 Andy Katzenmoyer ..............................................1996-98 [/FONT]
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]7. 196 A.J. Hawk .............................................................2002-05 [/FONT]
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]8. 191 Damon Moore .....................................................1995-98 [/FONT]
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]9. 190 "Pepper" Johnson ...............................................1982-85[/FONT]

[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]Truth be told, assisted tackles can be racked up just by sticking your nose in a pile at the right moment. I think this (solos) is a pretty good measurement, and puts Chris Spielman's career in perspective. In other words, Spielman is the OSU GOAT in my book (even though he sucks on 1460).[/FONT]
 
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More interesting... chronological:
2. 259 Tom Cousineau ....................................................1975-78
3. 256 Marcus Marek ....................................................1979-82
9. 190 "Pepper" Johnson ...............................................1982-85
1. 283 Chris Spielman ....................................................1984-87
N/A 1988
4. 239 Steve Tovar .........................................................1989-92
N/A 1995 Lorenzo Styles...................................................1992-94
6. 197 Andy Katzenmoyer ..............................................1996-98
N/A Matt Wilhelm...........................................................1999-02
7. 196 A.J. Hawk .............................................................2002-05
N/A James Laurinitais ......................................................2006-Present

1988 is the only year we didn't have a marquee LB since I was born in 1976:
('88 BACKERS)
OLB Michael McCray
ILB Orlando Craig
ILB John Sullivan (led team with 88 tackles)
 
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Mr. Inc brings up a great point about Andy. He accomplished what he did while being double and triple teamed on a consistent basis. Thats gotta be worth something.

I can't wait to see how good JL will turn out. He could end up being mentioned with these guys.
 
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fourteenandoh;875004; said:
Mr. Inc brings up a great point about Andy. He accomplished what he did while being double and triple teamed on a consistent basis. Thats gotta be worth something.

I can't wait to see how good JL will turn out. He could end up being mentioned with these guys.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Kat wasn't all that good a pass defender where A.J was pretty good at it
 
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Best Buckeye;875013; said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Kat wasn't all that good a pass defender where A.J was pretty good at it
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Not by much... A.J. recorded 7 INTs (13 PBUs) in his Buckeye career, Andy had 6 (12 PBUs). In fact one might argue that Andy was better because teams ran against his defense more often.

I think they're pretty close, and as I said before... even. But an arguement could be made either way. I think Andy would've been a better NFL backer if he hadn't broken his neck, but his career wouldn't be as long. A.J. doesn't form and fit as well as Andy did, A.J. tackles from the side a bit. If I had to pick one, it'd be about as close as it can possibly get between two players. Luckily we had both. :wink:
 
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aj compairs well to every lb ever to play for tOSU. some were better, most were not. he was an elite caliber lb'er. where does he fit # wise? does it really matter? its like saying well he isn't that spectacular, he's only #26 on the all time best qb list. well, if #25 is steve young and #27 is john elway... they guy "might" not suck so much...

he showed a whole generation of youth how the position is supposed to be played. whether or not he did so better than andy, or pepper, or speils or cousineau... well, the answer to that is likely more dependent on what generation you belong to than empirical evidence.
 
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martinss01;875640; said:
aj compairs well to every lb ever to play for tOSU. some were better, most were not. he was an elite caliber lb'er. where does he fit # wise? does it really matter? its like saying well he isn't that spectacular, he's only #26 on the all time best qb list. well, if #25 is steve young and #27 is john elway... they guy "might" not suck so much...

he showed a whole generation of youth how the position is supposed to be played. whether or not he did so better than andy, or pepper, or speils or cousineau... well, the answer to that is likely more dependent on what generation you belong to than empirical evidence.
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I don't think anyone said either sucked, we were simply having a discussion. Thank you for the advice, though. Now I can go back to painting my fingernails.

264454806_f17d69e329.jpg
 
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Mr. Incredible;874875; said:
They were definitely close as far as I'm concerned. Not sure who I would give the edge to, but found this an interesting measurement:

Solo Tackles ? Career ...........................................................Years
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]1. 283 Chris Spielman ....................................................1984-87 [/FONT]
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]2. 259 Tom Cousineau ....................................................1975-78 [/FONT]
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]3. 256 Marcus Marek ....................................................1979-82 [/FONT]
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]4. 239 Steve Tovar .........................................................1989-92 [/FONT]
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]5. 228 Mike Doss ...........................................................1999-02 [/FONT]
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]6. 197 Andy Katzenmoyer ..............................................1996-98 [/FONT]
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]7. 196 A.J. Hawk .............................................................2002-05 [/FONT]
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]8. 191 Damon Moore .....................................................1995-98 [/FONT]
[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]9. 190 "Pepper" Johnson ...............................................1982-85[/FONT]

[FONT=SSNPFN+Univers-CondensedLight,Univers]Truth be told, assisted tackles can be racked up just by sticking your nose in a pile at the right moment. I think this (solos) is a pretty good measurement, and puts Chris Spielman's career in perspective. In other words, Spielman is the OSU GOAT in my book (even though he sucks on 1460).[/FONT]
Click to expand...

One of the great Ohio State linebackers not on the list is Randy Gradishar. I'd take Randy over several of those with more career tackles.

fb73ncaaguide.JPG
 
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