Lane Kiffin (HC Ole/Young Miss & Twitter Troll King)

[jwinslow]

When it is a rival that is trying to bad mouth your coach there is a bias, albeit both ways.

What reason does UM have to make up lies though? They've smoked the SEC over the years and have beaten UF twice this decade (their only meetings).

it is always some kid who has a story, almost never a coach or parent. That strikes me as odd.

Players don't have to risk burning bridges for future kids.

So I am cautious of accepting as true rumors from h.s. kids. If he is a liar, then he should have a rep with high shcool coaches as untrustworthy. Meyer does not have that rep. So what is it that makes him a stone liar, and yet not get labeled as a liar by the very same high school recruiting community that Coach Meyer interacts with on a regular basis?

Why do you think so many stories pop up? Is it really 100% hatred and there isn't any validity to some of these pitches?

What reputation would you say Urban has regarding what he says about the competition when recruiting?

 

[Gatorubet]

Or telling a long-time Michigan commit (who UF offered) that the HC who recruited him doesn't think he should go play for the new UM HC.

Urban Meyer hits all time low - 5A Texas Football Forum

Is the "He" Meyer or another UF position coach? I cannot tell.

 

[jwinslow]

Is the "He" Meyer or another UF position coach? I cannot tell.

Meyer

but Michigan had a WR in this class from Texas named Daryl Stonum. Stonum committed to Carr fairly early but didn't really look around after the coaching change. He did say that he got a call from Urban Meyer after Rodriguez was hired that made him rethink his decision briefly. He said Meyer told him he (Meyer) had spoken with Carr and (Michigan WR coach) Erik Campbell. Those two told Meyer that Stonum was not a fit for the Rodriguez offense and probably would be better off at Florida. Stonum, angry that the coaches who recruited him would "sell him out," called them to confront them about the statements. Carr said he hadn't spoken to Meyer at all, let alone about Stonum. Campbell said the same. They both told him that they thought he'd do great under Rodriguez and should stick with the commitment.

Carr was not a malcontent on his way out, he helped secure a number of commitments and talk kids out of transferring.

 

[Gatorubet]

What reason does UM have to make up lies though? They've smoked the SEC over the years and have beaten UF twice this decade (their only meetings).

Huh? You are kidding, right? "Do you still beat your wife?"Edit: sorry, I saw UM as Urban the first time around. The story was before the second loss, so that is not in play. UM is not on the same level recruiting field as UF, and has plenty of reasons to lie to keep kids from signing with us and to sully his rep if they can. Serious stuff, recruiting.

Players don't have to risk burning bridges for future kids.

Which is why the Pahokee coaches refused to say FU to Kiffen, and Spurrier and the Cocks were not tossed from some other high school (in Georgia?) :tongue2:

Why do you think so many stories pop up? Is it really 100% hatred and there isn't any validity to some of these pitches?

Hatred. Envy. Recruiting advantage. Explaining why they do not recruit as well. And Urban can genuinely be seen as smug and arrogant, qualities which will create some detractors.

What reputation would you say Urban has regarding what he says about the competition when recruiting?

Reputation among which group? Both he and I could give a shit about his rep on fan blogs and message boards. His highly ranked classes speaks to his success with most kids, parents and h.s. coaches that sign wtih UF.

Anything else is just noise.

 

[Gatorubet]

We have had a lot of kids that did not work out at Florida and transferred. All programs do to some extent. You would think that 1) Urban would be a consistent liar at Utah and Bowling Green as well - character is not easily changed.
2) That being so, we should hear a greater than average number of disgruntled former players crucifying Urban for lying to them after or during the time that they leave. I have not seen this, so I infer what seems logical from that fact.

I am not impartial, and admit my bias, but it is not just head in sand stuff and is based upon his whole body of work as a coach.

 

[jwinslow]

Huh? You are kidding, right? "Do you still beat your wife?"

Didn't follow this at all.

Which is why the Pahokee coaches refused to say FU to Kiffen, and Spurrier and the Cocks were not tossed from some other high school (in Georgia?)

Didn't say it didn't happen, just listed an example for why a coach isn't as prone to throwing a fit. They also have more experience with recruiting and aren't quite as shocked when it happens.

Hatred. Envy. Recruiting advantage. Explaining why they do not recruit as well. And Urban can genuinely be seen as smug and arrogant, qualities which will create some detractors.

What would it take for you to believe one of these numerous tales?

Reputation among which group? Both he and I could give a shit about his rep on fan blogs and message boards. His highly ranked classes speaks to his success with most kids, parents and h.s. coaches that sign wtih UF.

Really? So success proves he's not prone to attacking the opposition in a questionable manner?

Negative recruiting has proven very productive over the years. Perhaps you could clarify what you're trying to suggest here, because that does't compute.

 

[jwinslow]

We have had a lot of kids that did not work out at Florida and transferred. All programs do to some extent. You would think that 1) Urban would be a consistent liar at Utah and Bowling Green as well - character is not easily changed.
2) That being so, we should hear a greater than average number of disgruntled former players crucifying Urban for lying to them after or during the time that they leave. I have not seen this, so I infer what seems logical from that fact.

I am not impartial, and admit my bias, but it is not just head in sand stuff and is based upon his whole body of work as a coach.

You're pretending like anyone notices those two schools, which is a poor stance imo.

 

[Gatorubet]

You're pretending like anyone notices those two schools, which is a poor stance imo.

Then stick to the four Florida years.

Anyway, Bama notices Utah. :p

 

[jwinslow]

Then stick to the four Florida years.

Did I not? I'm juggling a few things right now (offline and on, mock draft)

Anyway, Bama notices Utah.

True, though no one cared until it happened to the SEC. It would be very interesting to see what that Utah team would do to this one... especially given that abomination in Ann Arbor.

 

[Gatorubet]

Didn't follow this at all.

My bad. Sorry, look at the edit.

Didn't say it didn't happen, just listed an example for why a coach isn't as prone to throwing a fit. They also have more experience with recruiting and aren't quite as shocked when it happens.

See below.

What would it take for you to believe one of these numerous tales?

That so many of them were not so demonstrably false.

Really? So success proves he's not prone to attacking the opposition in a questionable manner?

No. But the lack of unhappiness from former UF recruits and their families, and from h.s. coaches (and according to your theory coaches outside of Florida who would presumably not care so much if they burned UF for future recruit reasons) leads me to think he is not a total sleaze.

If he is, then it does not mesh with his team as family focus and his unquestioned emphasis on academic success far and above that which keeps his players eligible.

Neither aspect I would find a good fit with an unethical win at any cost coach.

Negative recruiting has proven very productive over the years. Perhaps you could clarify what you're trying to suggest here, because that doesn't compute.

All I am saying is that it is not his rep in the BP planets of the world that count, but his rep to parents and kids and h.s. coaches that ultimately counts. Most of us get to see little of what is actually said. And I am sure that most schools have a "spin" to the neutral facts that can sway a kid. In court I spin my client's case. I do not lie if I know it is untrue. Doing that with a clear demarcation of what is favorable spin and what is a lie is what determines one's character and conscience.

 

[methomps]

this turned into a giant clusterfuck

 

[BB73]

Everybody here was all about how Urban violated the call rules to get a player from USC and how a scholly offer to some no talent gymnast girlfriend was the bait. She scored a 10 at an SEC meet just the other day, and the investigation cleared him.

Whoa there, counselor. First of all, "everybody" is pure hyperbole. There were only a few posters that got involved in discussing the issue.

Secondly, it appears that you're trying to give the impression that the BP board was unjustly ganging up on Meyer at the time, accusing him of getting the gymnastics program to give Maranda Smith a scholarship solely in order to land her WR boyfriend Carl Moore, and implying that she wasn't worthy of a gymnastics schollie at Florida on her own merits.

Since I posted on the topic, and I believe that I'm included in 'everybody', I resent the apparent implication that I was involved in such an accusation regarding Meyer. For the record, here are my posts on the matter. I believe them to be fair and rational, and that there was no negative connotation regarding Smith's gymnastic abilities.

The phone records will be telling. Did they share a land line, or have separate cell phone numbers? And was Urban calling Maranda more than once/week during periods of time in which that was the recruiting limit?

Those questions need to be answered before deciding if the response is simply a slap on the wrist.

After that, methomps (a Moderator here but not a Buckeye fan) made this post:

I think the bigger potential issue is the implication that Smith is given a scholarship because of Moore.

To which you responded:

I think that is the least issue. Hell, she is a "starter" and competed in the meet when #1 Florida met # 2 Georgia last week. The gal is a champion gymnast, and not some ham and egger talent thrown into the depth chart to catch her running back boyfriend.

I do not see the coach of a Number One ranked Collegiate Gymnastic team putting up with a football coach inserting chippees into her limited scholarship pool.

That view disrespects the athletic talent of the young lady, though not intentionally.

Then I playfully quoted you and said:

I agree with this statement. But only because Moore is a WR.

Later on, I posted this:

These sections seem to be relevant. Recruiting in each sport appears to be limited to the number of coaches allowed on staff for that sport. So Urban should not have been making any calls to a gymnast.


11.7.1.2 Recruiting Coordination Functions.

All recruiting coordination functions (except routine clerical tasks) must be performed by the head coach or one or more of the assistant coaches who count toward the numerical limitations in Bylaw 11.7.4. Such functions include: (Revised: 4/27/06 effective 8/1/06)​

(a) Activities involving athletics evaluation and/or selection of prospects;​

(b) Making telephone calls to or receiving telephone calls from prospective student-athletes (or prospective student-athletes' parents, legal guardians or coaches); and (Revised: 12/12/06)​

This section may also apply. As an "Athletics Representative", he should not have been initiating calls to a gymnast. If fault is found, there is no risk to her eligibility, but the athletic department may be penalized. ​

13.1.2.4 Other Restrictions, Athletics Representatives. ​

The following are additional restrictions that apply to athletics representatives:

(a) Telephone Conversation. An athletics representative of a member institution may speak to a prospective student-athlete via the telephone only if the prospective student-athlete initiates the telephone conversation and the call is not for recruiting purposes. Under such circumstances, the representative must refer questions about the institution's athletics program to the athletics department staff​

It was also mentioned that there may have been a problem with the involvement of Tim Tebow, since it was being investigated as to whether Tebow was passed a phone to talk to WR recruit Moore, which would have apparently violated rules about current athletes helping in recruiting.

You made this post after this article was linked: The Lantern - A Winner At Football Loser At Life

Just to be clear, the rules are the rules. If any rule is broken, no matter what it was or how minor, I expect us to abide by them and to be punished in accordance with similar violations at other institutions.

And I will add that I do not mind a "pushing the envelope" style, as long as that does not involve intentional skirting of established rules. What is gray, well, I want my recruiting coaches to be as creative as my CPA at tax time.

What bothers me is asserting/implying that Miss Smith was taking some more worthy recruits spot on the UG gymnastic team without mentioning that she is a major talent that had been speaking to UF's gymnastic coach for some time. The clear thrust of the article was that Meyer got an underserving girlfriend a spot on the gymnastics team to reel in a wide receiver. That is false. The writer's decision not to mention any of the facts of the Johnson deal save that Urban turned him in when he spurned the Gators is like spreading rumors about a cetain running back from tOSU without mentioning all of the facts. I have no problem with asking questions about Urban and his methods. That is fair. I have problems with writing articles that leave out and ignore crucial information but go on to assert negative conclusions based upon an incomplete picture.

I have less of a problem if a poster on a message board does it. I have more of a problem when a journalism student does it in a prestigeous (sic) official school newspaper with a national readership.

Here's an article reporting the result of the investigation:

espn

Updated: February 5, 2008, 6:28 PM ET
NCAA finds no rules violations in Meyer's phone calls to recruit


GAINESVILLE, Fla. -- The NCAA has found no rules violations in Florida coach Urban Meyer's recruitment of junior college receiver Carl Moore, the school said Tuesday.

"Allegations about impermissible telephone calls by the football staff have been reviewed by the NCAA and the university, and at this time, the information does not indicate any violations of NCAA rules occurred," Florida spokesman Steve McClain said.


The NCAA's findings were first reported by Florida Today. The NCAA did not return a phone message seeking comment.


Meyer had several conversations with Moore's girlfriend, current Florida gymnast Maranda Smith, while both were attending Sierra (Calif.) Community College last fall.


Since the Gators were recruiting Smith to the gymnastics team, it was questioned whether Meyer violated NCAA rules by talking to Smith, who apparently shared a cell phone with Moore.


It was also questioned whether Meyer handed a cell phone to quarterback Tim Tebow to talk to Moore right after Tebow won the Heisman Trophy, which would have violated a rule that prevents coaches from having current athletes help them recruit others.


Moore signed with the Gators last fall and enrolled in classes last month. Smith also signed with Florida and is competing with the gymnastics team.

So yes, he was cleared. Based on my reading of the regulations, and Smith's quotes about frequently takling to Meyer, I still don't understand how it wasn't a secondary violation.

 

[RB07OSU]

I didn't get a chance to read through this all but honestly, there have been a lot of moans and groans around the country about Meyer's recruiting tactics. I'm not going to pretend to know if they are warranted or not, but there has always been a lot of smoke. As for this particular incident, there is absolutely nothing substantial here. Kiffin is a complete IDIOT and if Tennecheat has ANY wits about them, they have to be reconsidering. If he is going to throw cheapshots around, why would he do it against a completely legal recruiting tactic? Apparently he didn't know but that's even worse, he just shows obvious incompetence about college recruiting and it's rules. He has publically went out of line more times than days he has actually been at Tennessee. I have to say that Kiffin is easily my #1 most disliked college coach right now, and that is saying something with the Rich Rod, Weis, etc. out there. What a piece of crap.

 

[Flocka]

I didn't get a chance to read through this all but honestly, there have been a lot of moans and groans around the country about Meyer's recruiting tactics. I'm not going to pretend to know if they are warranted or not, but there has always been a lot of smoke. As for this particular incident, there is absolutely nothing substantial here. Kiffin is a complete IDIOT and if Tennecheat has ANY wits about them, they have to be reconsidering. If he is going to throw cheapshots around, why would he do it against a completely legal recruiting tactic? Apparently he didn't know but that's even worse, he just shows obvious incompetence about college recruiting and it's rules. He has publically went out of line more times than days he has actually been at Tennessee. I have to say that Kiffin is easily my #1 most disliked college coach right now, and that is saying something with the Rich Rod, Weis, etc. out there. What a piece of crap.

It's Tennessee. The only thing they would be reconsidering is a raise.

 

[Gatorubet]

Whoa there, counselor. First of all, "everybody" is pure hyperbole. There were only a few posters that got involved in discussing the issue.

Secondly, it appears that you're trying to give the impression that the BP board was unjustly ganging up on Meyer at the time, accusing him of getting the gymnastics program to give Maranda Smith a scholarship solely in order to land her WR boyfriend Carl Moore, and implying that she wasn't worthy of a gymnastics schollie at Florida on her own merits.

Since I posted on the topic, and I believe that I'm included in 'everybody', I resent the apparent implication that I was involved in such an accusation regarding Meyer. For the record, here are my posts on the matter. I believe them to be fair and rational, and that there was no negative connotation regarding Smith's gymnastic abilities.

Oh sure BB73, if that is your real user name, to use your and methomps posts to say that the "everyone" was incorrect.

And you resent that? Weeeeell...how do you think I feel? You don't think I resent your attempt to use "facts" and the "truth" when you are trying to make a point? Sure, if you want to take the easy way out and be reality based...

Actually Bill, I was just a little worked up and was going with the flow. The "everyone" is obvioulsy not correct. Actually, I edited one other "everyone" to a "most" or "many", but I missed this one, and you are entirely correct. I remember your post, and more than just the ones you mentioned were balanced. But hey - I was in guard dog mode. :tongue2: