Lane Kiffin (HC Ole/Young Miss & Twitter Troll King)

[Gatorubet]

Leave it to the lawyers to write a five paragraph response for "I don't know." :tongue2:

guilty

 

[DaytonBuck]

I have a feeling Vanderbilt fans are a bad lot

 

[Gatorubet]

Not accepting defeat is one thing...

Continuing to badger a kid and refusing to respect his repeated answers of no is over the line and where we do not see eye to eye, Gator.

Or is that inaccurate? Do you disagree with this approach of Meyer's?

We got several players from Notre Dame to change. We kept in contact. Nobody ever said that we "badgered" them. I'm sure Cheesburger did not like it. But if we had a cordial relationship with the kid, and kept in touch saying "if anything comes up, if you have second thoughts, if you change your mind - remember we are still here and want you!" is fine with me.

"Refusing to respect his repeated answers of no" insinuates a badgering. Calling up and kidding around with a kid you had a good but not successful (i.e. "commit") relationship with saying "it is 74 degees here today man, you still sure?" is fine with me.

But if we were ever told "do not call me again, I am sure and you are bugging me", I would hope that we did not ever call him again, and if we did, then it is over the line and I would be offended.

Again, things are not black and white. Lots of grey in here.

 

[JCOSU86]

I disagree taht it is simple, but let me give it a go. I do not think in and of itself the fact that an average of three or four more kids per team are signed by the SEC than by your conference is in and of itself proof of violating the SEC Code of Ethics. We do have a greater rate of non-retention of athletes.

My gut reaction is that it is hard to see how signing 37 kids would not be a violation, since I have not heard of any reason for a class that size because of mass defections of players due to injury academics or players entering the draft, and that big a number seems to indicate you were going after a bunch of non-qualifiers. One big problem I have is I do not know what the exact definition of "over signing" is, unless it means you take more kids in your recruiting class (kids sending in a LOI) than are given scholarships to your institution.

By definition would it be a violation (assuming you were within the total allowed for one year) if all of the kids were signed and given schollies, but some underperforming upper classmen let go to make it work? I mean, it is my appreciation that all scholarships are a year to year deal, and not a four year ride. I understand that it is generally understood that it will be 4 years gig absent some player misconduct, academic problem or injury causing the kid to lose it, but I am not sure if booting Bubba no 1 for a faster Bubba #2 is a violation under the rules, but it would concern me morally if the kid is giving his best (and just not good enough) and is launched for a new recruit.

Problem is, you are asking if it is a violation of the oversign rules to oversign, and I do not know the definition of "oversign" under the Code
For example, that is like you asking me two years ago whether Urban contacting recruit X violated SEC Phone Contact Rules when Urban sent a text message without giving me the definition of "phone contact" under those non-contact rules.

I'm not being purposely evasive, I just don't know what the applications are of the rather broad statements used in the Code of Ethics. The applications are usually figured out by decisons issued after a violation is alleged, sort of like case law defining the meaning of a statute.

I appreciate the fact that you don't see it as cut and dried. As a lawyer you are trained (and maybe predisposed) to seeing things from several vantage points. As an IT professional, I tend to see things as black-and-white.

 

[DaytonBuck]

We got several players from Notre Dame to change. We kept in contact. Nobody ever said that we "badgered" them. I'm sure Cheesburger did not like it. But if we had a cordial relationship with the kid, and kept in touch saying "if anything comes up, if you have second thoughts, if you change your mind - remember we are still here and want you!" is fine with me.

"Refusing to respect his repeated answers of no" insinuates a badgering. Calling up and kidding around with a kid you had a good but not successful (i.e. "commit") relationship with saying "it is 74 degees here today man, you still sure?" is fine with me.

But if we were ever told "do not call me again, I am sure and you are bugging me", I would hope that we did not ever call him again, and if we did, then it is over the line and I would be offended.

Again, things are not black and white. Lots of grey in here.

Didn't that involve telling Omar Hunter Notre Dame's NBC contract was getting canceled?

 

[Gatorubet]

I appreciate the fact that you don't see it as cut and dried. As a lawyer you are trained (and maybe predisposed) to seeing things from several vantage points. As an IT professional, I tend to see things as black-and-white.

I appreciate that. And even if I said I don't know if it was a violation, my saying that is not the same as me saying I am OK with it personally. Two different topics.

I am trained as a plaintiff lawyer to bounce all military and police and engineering math/IT types from my juries if the standard to be used is "more likely or not" or "preponderance of the evidence."

Those guys see things in black and white, proven or not proven. The idea that you should legally win your case with 51% proof is something that they cannot seem to accept. Conversely, if I am defending a case I load up with you guys. :p

 

[Gatorubet]

Didn't that involve telling Omar Hunter Notre Dame's NBC contract was getting canceled?

Per all of the Notre Dame sites, referencing each other. I have not read that anywhere that is not a blog or fan site.

If he did, he is sleazy. If he did, that is the sort of thing that I would expect big 10 fans to condemn, and I would condemn then too as an SEC fan. The idiots at UT and Bama aside, none of the fans I know want to get kids this way. It is sleazy to outright lie. I have no problem with negative recruiting if it is true. Saying "FSU is about to get sanctioned by the NCAA - can you risk it for your career if they get hit worse and because of sanctions suck for four more years?" is a fair question. Saying that you know that they will not be in televised bowls for four years when it is a lie is sleazy.

Here, I think that you would be stupid to do things like that if you are a highly visible coach. Getting a high school pipeline cut off for one kid is stupid unless you had no d linemen and it was your ass on the line job wise.

Dayton, if he did that then I would call him names too.

 

[BUCKYLE]

Dayton, if he did that then I would call him names too.

Yeah right. Like what?

 

[jwinslow]

Didn't that involve telling Omar Hunter Notre Dame's NBC contract was getting canceled?

Or telling a long-time Michigan commit (who UF offered) that the HC who recruited him doesn't think he should go play for the new UM HC.

Urban Meyer hits all time low - 5A Texas Football Forum

"He told me that he talked to Coach Carr and Coach Soup and that they told him that I would be a much better fit in the Florida offense than I would be in the one at Michigan, Stonum recalled. I thought, wow, my coaches are selling me out? I confronted them about it. I asked Coach Carr and Coach Soup about it and they said they never talked to that guy and that there was no way they ever said anything like that and that they think I should be a Wolverine. I believed them. Right then, I knew just how Florida rolled."

 

[jwinslow]

Dayton, if he did that then I would call him names too.

I'm not sure you'd ever believe it unless you were standing in the room...

 

[DaytonBuck]

Or telling a long-time Michigan commit (who UF offered) that the HC who recruited him doesn't think he should go play for the new UM HC.

Urban Meyer hits all time low - 5A Texas Football Forum

That, Omar Hunter, Telling Matt Patchan he'll get shot in Miami (then he gets shot in Tampa), Meat Market leave with lingering doubts about his character. The Patchan one if true is especially concerning because it was playing on the Sean Taylor murder.

 

[Gatorubet]

Yeah right. Like what?

"My man" "Big Guy" "Coach" :p

 

[BUCKYLE]

"My man" "Big Guy" "Coach" :p

Attempt to get sig material of Gator bashing Urbie...STATUS: FAIL

 

[Gatorubet]

I heard how Urban told Snead that Tebow was recruited as a linebacker. That is a lie, and I showed the pic of Friday Night Lights Camp at UF with Snead and Tebow throwing together. He was not being recruited as a linebacker, every article told of how we wanted Tim as the perfect option QB fit. It has been repeated here - by Dayton and others - but it is farcical.

Everybody here was all about how Urban violated the call rules to get a player from USC and how a scholly offer to some no talent gymnast girlfriend was the bait. She scored a 10 at an SEC meet just the other day, and the investigation cleared him.

Most everybody here bit on the LSU kid who claimed that Urban "flagged" his NCAA Clearinghouse grade report to punish him for signing with the corn dogs. That is false, and yet it was repeated with confidence that it was true.

When it is a kid and Urban, the past lies being proven wrong so many times tends to steer me to believe Urban.

When it is a rival that is trying to bad mouth your coach there is a bias, albeit both ways.

So I am cautious of accepting as true rumors from h.s. kids. If he is a liar, then he should have a rep with high school coaches as untrustworthy. Meyer does not have that rep. So what is it that makes him a stone liar, and yet not get labeled as a liar by the very same high school recruiting community that Coach Meyer interacts with on a regular basis?

it is always some kid who has a story, almost never a coach or parent. That strikes me as odd.

 

[Gatorubet]

Attempt to get sig material of Gator bashing Urbie...STATUS: FAIL

Kyle, I already said that would be sleazy, and he would be a sleazy coach if he lied to recruits. Mostly I was gigging you and your hair-club-for-men beard. :p