Krenzel ... Good, Bad or Ugly? (Long)

[3yardsandacloud]

I know all you Buckeyes love Craig (at least most of you) but I was curious as to your thoughts on why he gets a luke-warm response from fans and media cross the country (outside of Buckeye nation). I understand he isn't the most spectacular player on the field, although he had many spectacular moments in 2002. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT crying no respect! I just wonder why other folks don't see him in the same light as other high profile QBs.

Do other folks just see him as GOOD?
All he does is win games ... like Cris Cater - all he does is catch TDs.

Do fans and media really think he is BAD?
He is in the perfect system for his skills. Tressel doesn't ask him to win games ... just don't lose them. Would he be any good if the game were his to win and lose each week?

Maybe people just think his style is UGLY?
He gets the job done but it's just boring to watch. I mean field position, field position, punt, capitalize on turnover, score. Yawn.


I don't understand it. IMO, he might be the best all around QB we've had since Kern. I know that's strong praise, but that's my feeling.
He's tough as nails. I don't think he left the game for injury once this year but absorbed some pretty wicked shots.
He's smart. He reads defenses and makes the correct adjustments/audibles. Molecular Biology ... nuf said.
He runs. He's not Mo, Eddie or Archie, but give him some daylight and he'll kill you. I can't count how many time he ran for the clutch yardage even when some of our backs seemed stymied. I don't recall him sliding to avoid a hit/tackle. Much the opposite, he looked to dish out some punishment.
He throws. Maybe not the nicest spiral, but he puts the ball where receivers can make a play on it and DBs can't. Can you say Holy Buckeye? 7 ints all year - 2 from the fiesta bowl.
He leads. Many players have commented on his calm demeanor and confidence. I don't recall the offense (or defense) getting rattled one time this year. The "stupid" penalties (offsides, delay, celebration) have decreased. He is well spoken and humble. He is thoughtful and courteous when asked a question and always deflects praise towards his teammates.

Am I missing something here or what? I mean Philip Rivers is a Bone Fide Heisman Candidate (deservedly so) and he only leads Craig in QB efficiency rating by .2 of a point! In fact before the Fiesta Bowl Craig was 7th in the nation with a 148.1. He went undefeated, won the BigTen, won the NC, won the Fiesta Bowl MVP. I've heard more talk about Navarre having a "special year" in 2003, than CK. Why is that? Navarre is a good QB but he was rated 60th last year. I could go on and on. I fact I have. This was to be a 2 part thread but turned the first part into a dissertation so I'll leave it to stand alone. Stay tuned for Part 2 - The Most Important Position ... QB.

Any thoughts on CK would be appreciated.

 

[3yardsandacloud]

The Most Important Position ... QB

I guess this is now PART 2 of my previous thread - Krenzel ... Good, Bad or Ugly?

The QB is without a doubt the most important position on the football team. The easiest explaination is that he will touch the ball on almost every offensive play (more if he's the holder for place kicks or the punter). His decisions will have a greater effect on the team's success than anyone else. Originally I just wanted to compare CK with the QBs we faced last year and the ones we'll see this year. Well one diatribe later I'm left with a second thread. I guess the easiest way to do this is ask some questions:

1 How do you think CK stacked up against the competition last year ... how will he fair this year?
I though that CK was the one constant (maybe Jenkins as well) on offense last season. With injuries and inconsistent play at other positions the Bucks really leaned on Craig through the second half of the season. With the BigTen (Iowa) losing Banks, CK is the highest ranked QB in the league and only behind Rivers for the other QBs we'll face. Philip Rivers is a Bone Fide Heisman Candidate (deservedly so) and he only leads Craig in QB efficiency rating by .2 of a point! In fact before the Fiesta Bowl Craig was 7th in the nation with a 148.1. He went undefeated, won the BigTen, won the NC, won the Fiesta Bowl MVP. I've heard more talk about Navarre having a "special year" in 2003, than CK. Why is that? Navarre is a good QB but he was rated 60th last year.

2 Who do you see as the biggest problems (QBs) for OSU this upcoming season?
I think Rivers (obviously), Pickett (like Rivers, talented with weapons to throw to) and Josh Harris from BG will be the ones to look out for. The in-state schools are eager to knock off their big brother in football (see Gino Guidugli and Cincinnati last year), and Harris looks to be a two-way threat.

3 Who is projected to start for the teams that graduated their QB last season?
I didn't list any QBs who didn't play last year, so incoming freshmen and redshirt freshman will have to come from you. Of the teams we will face it looks like Iowa, Indiana and Wisconsin will be replacing their starting QBs this year. What do you see happening with these three? I'm guessing Sorgi will be the man at Wisky this year.


NOTES:
I've listed the top 20 QBs from last year, plus any others that we played last year or will play this year.
• Who is Ryan Dinwiddie? No one is even CLOSE to this guy in Yards per Completion, TD to INT Ratio, and QB Rating!
• 3 of the top 5 QBs are from the MAC!

Last Year:
• Kliff Kingsbury attempted 712 passes and 101 rushes - 813 plays. Wow! (45 TDs and 44 sacks-Ouch!)
• Joshua Cribbs passed for 1014 yards and ran for 1067 yards. Nice combo!
• Gino Guidugli rated 55? He was All-World against the Bucks last year.

This Year:
• Philip Rivers is a Heisman candidate. Only 11 sacks last year ... go get him Bucks!
• Cody Pickett, much like Rivers, is very strong all-around QB with weapons to throw to.
• Josh Harris will be a senior at BGU and is a true 2 way threat (pass 2425 yds)/(run 737 yds) ... 20 TDs!

LEGEND
~ will be a junior
* will be a senior
+ graduated
NL - Not Listed

[FONT=courier new]QB NAME                             CMP     ATT     YDS     CMP%    YDS/A   TD  INT SACK RAT    Rush/Yds/Avg/TDs
1. Ryan Dinwiddie, Boise St*        134     205     2283    65.4    11.14   20  3   16  188.2   36 / -36 / -1.0 / 3
2. Brad Banks, Iowa+                170     294     2573    57.8    8.75    26  5   12  157.1   82 / 435 / 5.3 / 5
3. Byron Leftwich, Marshall+        331     491     4268    67.4    8.69    30  10  3   156.5   33 / -8 / -0.2 / 2
4. Brian Jones, Toledo+             297     423     3446    70.2    8.15    23  9   19  152.3   85 / 414 / 4.9 / 3
5. Ryan Schneider, C Florida*       265     430     3770    61.6    8.77    31  6   12  151.6   32 / -86 / -2.7 / 2
6. Carson Palmer, USC+              309     489     3942    63.2    8.06    33  10  24  149.1   49 / -85 / -1.7 / 3
7. Matt Schaub, Virginia*           288     418     2976    68.9    7.12    28  7   22  147.5   70 / 95 / 1.4 / 2
8. Jason Gesser, Wash St+           236     402     3408    58.7    8.48    28  13  27  146.4   54 / -116 / -2.1 / 0
9. Ken Dorsey, Miami+               222     393     3369    56.5    8.57    28  12  12  145.9   23 / -45 / -2.0 / 0
10. Cory Paus, UCLA+                109     184     1647    59.2    8.95    10  6   17  145.8   28 / -88 / -3.1 / 1
11. Darian Durant, UNC~             147     248     2122    59.3    8.56    16  9   26  145.2   88 / 159 / 1.8 / 2
12. Kliff Kingsbury, Texas Tech+    479     712     5017    67.3    7.05    45  13  44  143.7   101 / -114 / -1.1 / 2
13. Bryan Randall, Va Tech~         158     248     2134    63.7    8.60    12  11  34  143.1   171 / 534 / 3.1 / 3
14. Chris Simms, Texas+             235     396     3207    59.3    8.10    26  12  35  143.0   70 / -124 / -1.8 / 4
15. Scott McBrien, Maryland*        162     284     2497    57.0    8.79    15  10  14  141.3   88 / 286 / 3.3 / 7
16. Philip Rivers, NC State*        262     418     3353    62.7    8.02    20  10  11  141.1   57 / 100 / 1.8 / 9
17. Craig Krenzel, Ohio St*         148     249     2110    59.4    8.47    12  7   30  140.9   125 / 367 / 2.9 / 2
18. Josh Fields, Oklahoma St~       226     408     3145    55.4    7.71    31  10  18  140.3   50 / -72 / -1.4 / 3
19. Jon Beutjer, Illinois*          193     327     2511    59.0    7.68    21  11  17  138.0   44 / 7 / 0.2 / 1
20. Ben Roethlisberger, Miami (OH)* 271     428     3238    63.3    7.57    21  11  30  137.9   82 / -54 / -0.7 / 1

28. Jeff Smoker, Mich St*           114     203     1593    56.2    7.85    13  10  19  133.4   38 / -39 / -1.0 / 0
33. Scott Rislov, San Jose St*      275     449     3251    61.2    7.24    22  14  26  132.0   70 / 22 / 0.3 / 0
34. Cody Pickett, Washington*       365     612     4461    59.6    7.29    28  14  35  131.4   86 / -185 / -2.2 / 3
37. Brooks Bollinger, Wisconsin+    131     245     1758    53.5    7.18    14  4   39  129.3   160 / 466 / 2.9 / 8
40. Adam Hall, SDSU*                272     452     3253    60.2    7.20    17  9   33  129.1   64 / -97 / -1.5 / 0
44. Zack Mills, Penn State~         188     333     2417    56.5    7.26    17  10  15  128.3   87 / 201 / 2.3 / 3
46. Kyle Orton, Purdue~             192     317     2257    60.6    7.12    12  9   13  127.2   43 / 47 / 1.1 / 0
53. Josh Harris, BGU*               198     353     2425    56.1    6.87    18  11  11  124.4   186 / 737 / 4.0 / 20
55. Gino Guidugli, Cincy~           258     472     3543    54.7    7.51    22  21  22  124.2   69 / 27 / 0.4 / 3
56. Asad Abdul-Khaliq, Minnesota*   164     314     2184    52.2    6.96    19  11  16  123.6   86 / 338 / 3.9 / 5
60. John Navarre, Michigan*         248     448     2905    55.4    6.48    21  7   19  122.2   40 / -16 / -0.4 / 2
75. Brett Basanez, N'western~       190     325     2204    58.5    6.78    7   7   12  118.2   69 / 84 / 1.2 / 4
88. Gibran Hamdan, Indiana+         152     293     2115    51.9    7.22    9   14  24  113.1   55 / -52 / -0.9 / 0

Not Listed in Top 100 QBs
J.Cribbs, Kent State~               91      186     1014    48.9    5.45    4   14  SAC/RAT NL  137 / 1067 / 7.8 / 10

BACK UPS (Upcoming opponents-OOC)
T.Barton, Washington                7       8       43      87.5    5.38    0   0   SAC/RAT NL  1 / 2 / 2.0 / 0
L.Sheriff, SDSU                     79      127     962     62.2    7.57    7   1   SAC/RAT NL  14 / -43 / -3.1 / 0
J.Davis, NC State                   5       10      44      50.0    4.40    0   1   SAC/RAT NL  5 / 16 / 3.2 / 0
A.Davis, NC State                   4       9       44      44.4    4.89    0   0   SAC/RAT NL  1 / 3 / 3.0 / 0
B.Peterson, NC State                2       8       27      25.0    3.38    0   0   SAC/RAT NL  9 / 24 / 2.7 / 0
A.Sahm, BGSU                        25      37      244     67.6    6.59    4   0   SAC/RAT NL  16 / 98 / 6.1 / 2
C.Magner, BGSU                      3       5       74      0.0     14.80   3   0   SAC/RAT NL  11 / 81 / 7.4 / 1
J.Alls, BGSU                        1       1       15      100.0   15.00   1   0   SAC/RAT NL  123 / 807 / 6.6 / 4 

BACK UPS (Upcoming opponents-BigTen)
D.Ward, Illinois                    65      126     877     51.6    6.96    5   5   SAC/RAT NL  17 / -20 / -1.2 / 0
T.Jones, Indiana                    75      152     879     49.3    5.78    9   7   SAC/RAT NL  25 / -19 / -0.8 / 0 
G.Johnson, Indiana                  1       1       26      100.0   26.00   0   0   SAC/RAT NL  2 / 10 / 5.0 / 0
N.Chandler, Iowa                    12      20      161     60.0    8.05    1   0   SAC/RAT NL  5 / 8 / 1.6 / 0
S.Brinton, Michigan                 11      20      97      55.0    4.85    0   0   SAC/RAT NL  6 / -7 / -1.2 / 0
D.Dowdell, Michigan State           92      165     1097    55.8    6.65    10  4   SAC/RAT NL  41 / -20 / -0.5 / 1
A.Alexander, Michigan State         1       7       44      14.3    6.29    1   3   SAC/RAT NL  3 / 13 / 4.3 / 0
B.Kamrath, Minnesota                8       13      122     61.5    9.38    2   0   SAC/RAT NL  4 / -12 / -3.0 / 0
D.Upchurch, Minnesota               1       2       50      50.0    25.00   0   0   SAC/RAT NL  6 / 45 / 7.5 / 0
P.Gruening, Minnesota               1       1       28      100.0   28.00   0   0   SAC/RAT NL  1 / 3 / 3.0 / 1
T.Stauss, Northwestern              69      113     535     61.1    4.73    2   3   SAC/RAT NL  24 / -76 / -3.2 / 0
A.Webb, Northwestern                2       6       45      33.3    7.50    0   1   SAC/RAT NL  4 / 20 / 5.0 / 0
S.McMullen, Ohio State              25      31      315     80.6    10.16   1   0   SAC/RAT NL  4 / 1 / 0.3 / 1 
M.Robinson, Penn State              10      17      119     58.8    7.00    0   1   SAC/RAT NL  50 / 263 / 5.3 / 6
B.Kirsch, Purdue                    79      134     1067    59.0    7.96    8   5   SAC/RAT NL  72 / 423 / 5.9 / 3
J.Sorgi, Wisconsin                  34      62      463     54.8    7.47    1   2   SAC/RAT NL  23 / -3 / -0.1 / 0
O.Daniels, Wisconsin                2       6       9       33.3    1.50    0   1   SAC/RAT NL  4 / 18 / 4.5 / 0 [/FONT]

2003-04 Schedule
Sat 08/30/2003 Washington
Sat 09/06/2003 San Diego State
Sat 09/13/2003 North Carolina State
Sat 09/20/2003 Bowling Green
Sat 09/27/2003 Northwestern
Sat 10/11/2003 Wisconsin - Madison, WI
Sat 10/18/2003 Iowa
Sat 10/25/2003 Indiana - Bloomington, IN
Sat 11/01/2003 Penn State - University Park, PA
Sat 11/08/2003 Michigan State
Sat 11/15/2003 Purdue
Sat 11/22/2003 Michigan - Ann Arbor, MI

2002-03 Schedule
Sat 08/24/2002 Texas Tech - W, 45-21
Sat 09/07/2002 Kent State - W, 51-17
Sat 09/14/2002 Washington St. - W, 25-7
Sat 09/21/2002 Cincinnati - W, 23-19
Sat 09/28/2002 Indiana - W, 45-17
Sat 10/05/2002 Northwestern - W, 27-16
Sat 10/12/2002 San Jose St. - W, 50-7
Sat 10/19/2002 Wisconsin - W, 19-14
Sat 10/26/2002 Penn St. - W, 13-7
Sat 11/02/2002 Minnesota - W, 34-3
Sat 11/09/2002 Purdue - W, 10-6
Sat 11/16/2002 Illinois - W, 23-16
Sat 11/23/2002 Michigan - W, 14-9
Fri 01/03/2003 Miami - W, 31-24

BTW, I'm going to have to get versed in HTML Clarity, these leader lines suck! (Edit-Leader lines are now out, code tabs are in)
Humm, looks better Mili, but now I can't add color to individual lines for emphasis.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

It's mainly because Krenzel isn;t flashy and never puts up big numbers. Even guys like Navarre who also aren't all that flashy still put up some big numbers occasionally. Krenzel never gets the chance to. The times he's really sharp and starts to roll up some decent stats, we're way ahead and "Bang", in comes McMullen (not that that's a bad thing). Other times, he limits his passing and we still go up big thanks to Clarett, and out comes Krenzel again to make way for mop-up duty. Because of our defense, the only tight games where Krenzel styaed in the whole time were low-scoring games, and it's tough for a tram like ours to have flashy stats while scoring few points.

In my mind, Krenzel has proven to be a true winner and a far better overall quarterback than almost any other QB in the country, especially Navarre.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Try using a simple text editor (Notepad, etc.) and use tabs tp line columns up. Then copy and paste the text between <CODE></CODE> tags (use "[" and "]" in place of "<" and ">"). Works great.

1. Ryan Dinwiddie, Boise St*	134	205	2283	.65.4	11.14	20	3	16	188.2
2. Brad Banks, Iowa+		170	294	2573	.57.8	8.75	26	5	12	157.1
3. Byron Leftwich, Marshall+	331	491	4268	.67.4	8.69	30	10	13	156.5
4. Brian Jones, Toledo+		297	423	3446	.70.2	8.15	23	9	19	152.3
5. Ryan Schneider, C Florida*	265	430	3770	.61.6	8.77	31	16	12	151.6
6. Carson Palmer, USC+		309	489	3942	.63.2	8.06	33	10	24	149.1
7. Matt Schaub, Virginia*	288	418	2976	.68.9	7.12	28	7	22	147.5
8. Jason Gesser, Wash St+	236	402	3408	.58.7	8.48	28	13	27	146.4
9. Ken Dorsey, Miami+		222	393	3369	.56.5	8.57	28	12	12	145.9
10. Cory Paus, UCLA+		109	184	1647	.59.2	8.95	10	6	17	145.8

 

[3yardsandacloud]

Yes, I agree on your points Mili. I also get the feeling that some of our other "star" players may steal some of CKs limelight. Nothing intentional mind you, but Mo and Gamble just seem to draw the audience and camera to them. Craig doesn't help himself by deflecting all his praise back to teammates ... but God I LOVE it when he does that. It reminds me of Woody doing an interview. I can't remember him ever placing blame at a players feet publicly. He'd always give the players praise and have the coaches take any blame. Always something like "well that's something we as a coaching staff need to get better at. We didn't do a good job of preparing (name of player/position here) for that situation. We're just going to have to do a better job of coaching."

 

[3yardsandacloud]

Thanks for the tip Mili! Your sample still has columns running together but I get the idea. I went to the "testing grounds" and played with it and it works great for a monospace font like courier. I wasn't sure if the code should be around each line ...

COURIER (Monospace fonts look good!)

[FONT=courier new]QB NAME                 CMP     ATT     YDS     CMP%        YDS/A       TD      INT     SACK/RAT
B.Kirsch, Purdue        79      134     1067    59.0        7.96        8       5       SAC/RAT NL
J.Sorgi, Wisconsin      34      62      463     54.8        7.47        1       2       SAC/RAT NL
O.Daniels, Wisconsin    2       6       9       33.3        1.50        0       1       SAC/RAT NL[/FONT]

ARIAL (Proportional space fonts look bad)

[FONT=arial]QB NAME                 CMP     ATT     YDS     CMP%        YDS/A       TD      INT     SACK/RAT
B.Kirsch, Purdue        79      134     1067    59.0        7.96        8       5       SAC/RAT NL
J.Sorgi, Wisconsin      34      62      463     54.8        7.47        1       2       SAC/RAT NL
O.Daniels, Wisconsin    2       6       9       33.3        1.50        0       1       SAC/RAT NL[/FONT]

Thanks for the idea Mili ... now I get to edit my post ... fun! (read "fun" in the sarcasm font)

 

[buckeye68]

IMHO, you would have to go back pretty far to find player as well rounded as CK. Off hand I can't think of a single player, past or present form any team let alone the Buckeyes. Some were better athletes, no doubt about it, but I can't think of one who had the whole package like Krenzel does. Ability, Brains, Leadership and good old-fashioned common sense. Every thing he does he brings a touch of class to, on the field as well as off the field. It is so refreshing in today's atmosphere of me, me, me to see someone so team orientated. The best part is we get to enjoy having Craig for one more year.

Joe Germaine is close but not quite. From what I have read I am sure Rex Kern was right up there as well.

John Franks was another one but was never really in a leadership type role.

 

[3yardsandacloud]

buckeye68, gotta say you're right on the money. CK is someone that can make us all proud to be Buckeyes. I liked Joe Germaine alot too, same type of character, a confident, humble, effective leader. It's hard to dislike people like that. As far as Kern, I was very young when he played so I'm going off what I've heard and seen on replays. Anything before that (late 60s) almost has no realistic meaning for me. It's hard to judge things you only experience through stories and other peoples memories.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

There's no other QB in the country who I want running the Buckeyes than Krenzel...period.

 

[3yardsandacloud]

Mili ... love the sig. You need a graphic.

I found these but I'm sure I saw a OSU Collectible Tractor-Trailer Rig that would be perfect. I just can't remember what site I saw it on.

 

[WoodyWorshiper]

I came on here to say the exact same thing that Mili did 2 posts ago.

Lets call it the way it was. CK was a first year QB who led his team to a NC. He did it with poise and brains, as well as an uncanny ability to get up time after time from hits that would have sent many-a-tough guy crying for his mommy.

Now, we have this very special player and leader coming back to defend the "marbles." He'll never win a Heisman, won't be an All-American and stats-wise may not even make first team all Big-Ten. IF he gets drafted next year it will be late, and probably will never see a down of football in the NFL. Yet, there is that "edge" that you feel over the opponent when he is behind center. He's the best QB out there to run this team. Even with a loss during the regular season, A win over dUMb this year will solidify him as one of the greatest ever to play here. A BCS Bowl win puts him up another notch. Another NC and he is a "lock" as our greatest ever.

 

[kippy1040]

Krenzel...Good, Bad or Ugly?

I go back to the days of Rex Kern in the 68 season. He had a tremendous season when he was healthy. One of his better
features was faking a hand off on a keeper to his backs. He
was good at that. His arm strenght was not all that great but
he got the job done. And ya know back in those days Woody
was not in love with throwing the ball. But in the Michigan game of 69 Rex did not fare too well and alot of people wanted to blame him for the loss.

Krenzel reminds me alot of what Rex Kern was. Both of them are very bright, although I think Craig was a bit faster in the run department. Im not so sure if Kern was given the option to do an audible back then. And I am not to keen to think if Krenzel was given the option to call an audible or not last season. Anyway I am in agreemnet with alot of you when it comes to saying that Krenzel was an integral key player in leading OHio State to a great National Champioship. He may not have the great season in 03 and it not without saying that he could even throw an interception or two this year. Whatever the outcome for 2003, I have to say that I will be behind Krenzel all the way. To me he is just one of the coolest customers of the quarterback positions that I have ever witnessed for the Ohio State Buckeyes. Good Luck to you Craig in the future.

 

[ScarletNGry]

I could not think of another QB in college that I would take over Krenzel. He has shown that he can complete any pass that needs to be complete. I think most people do not give him the credit he deserves as a passer because he did not have 3,000 yards and I think that is a shame. His completion percent was amazing. He was accurate and smart. He took a few too many sacks but I would rather that than an int. He also put the ball where only our recievers had a shot at it. He throws the ball away or runs when the play is not there.

One more point about Krenzel and why I would take him over ANY other QB in college. He completed the 2 most pressure packed throws in college football last year. We all know which ones they are ( and in case you don't see 4th and 1 against Purdue and 4th and 15 against Miami). That says it all. Those were to 2 different recievers so people can not say it was the reciever that made the play. Without him making those plays we are all talking about how close we came to playing for or winning a National Championship. There was a certain QB that won the Hiesman that did not even complete a clutch pass like those.

Give me CK everyday of the week and twice on Saturdays!!!!!

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

3yacod: Glad to be of help. As what's-his-name on South Park used to say: "Proportional space fonts are bad, umm kay?"

 

[buckeye68]

That would be Mr. Mackey,umm kay?