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Kirk Ferentz (four more B1G COY Awards than Tressel and Meyer combined)

Wait a minute, can this be true?
You guys are telling me that Ferentz has a 115-85 record for a .575 win percentage,
Urban at tOSU is 37-3 for a 92.5% win percentage.
Tressel at tOSU was 94-22 for 81% win percentage.
altogether Meyer and Tressel have 16 more wins and 60 fewer losses, but...
Ferentz has received 3 Big 10 coach of the year awards, Meyer and Tressel combined have none?

It's apparent that the B1G COY has historically been awarded not to the best coach in the league, but rather to the coach whose team overachieved the most. Using that factor as the dominant criterion for selecting a winner means a coach at tOSU will rarely have a shot at winning it, because tOSU almost always has a better team than the conference opposition on paper. Given all the injuries at the QB position and all the youth on this year's team, however, it's hard to argue that any team overachieved and overcame adversity more than tOSU this season. It's why giving this year's award to anyone other than Urban Meyer is especially laughable.
 
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Let me see if I've got this straight: because I disagree with you, I'm the board contrarian. If what you seek is an echo chamber, fine.

BTW, I did go all the way back to the 20s because it makes the point that ALL "big" schools have feasted on "smaller" schools throughout the history of football.



I also pointed out that in recent seasons Tressel and Meyer have had the benefit of playing against MAC and FCS schools to pad their records. Its part of the same pattern that held true throughout the history of college football.

Nowhere do I make the claim that Ferentz is a better coach than Tressel or Meyer, nor would I.

Is he mediocre? All I'm suggesting is that Iowa has a long history of being a .500 program. You have to measure Ferentz by that standard.

I have no idea why he was voted those COY awards. My best guess is that is that the voters believed that - given the situations at Iowa and Ohio State - it was significantly more difficult to win at Iowa. I don't think that's an absurd point of view.

As for why he remains - again, Iowa is not Ohio State, or Michigan, or Texas. Making coaching changes is the point at which resources kick in. 70K stadium vs 107K stadium, alum support, program history and perception to outsiders, all the things that point to the significant difference between the two schools fall in Ohio State's favor and work against long term success at Iowa. I don't see Franklin leaving Vandy for Iowa. I don't see Iowa able to offer Harbaugh a six year deal. Maybe that's why he was given his extension.

My argument isn't that he's not a relative disadvantage at Iowa. It's that even accounting for that he's mediocre at best and is paid as if he's elite . . . by a school that doesn't appear to be too concerned about actually becoming elite.
 
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It's apparent that the B1G COY has historically been awarded not to the best coach in the league, but rather to the coach whose team overachieved the most. Using that factor as the dominant criterion for selecting a winner means a coach at tOSU will rarely have a shot at winning it, because tOSU almost always has a better team than the conference opposition on paper. Given all the injuries at the QB position and all the youth on this year's team, however, it's hard to argue that any team overachieved and overcame adversity more than tOSU this season. It's why giving this year's award to anyone other than Urban Meyer is especially laughable.
Absolutely.
 
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Let me see if I've got this straight: because I disagree with you, I'm the board contrarian. If what you seek is an echo chamber, fine.
I called you a board contrarian because you have a long history of being a board contrarian.

In this particular case, you are being a contrarian because you persist with an argument when the facts are manifestly against you. Specifically:

BTW, I did go all the way back to the 20s because it makes the point that ALL "big" schools have feasted on "smaller" schools throughout the history of football.
In the 1920's, Ohio State played schools like Case and Oberlin (and Iowa played schools like Drake) for two reasons: (1) they were historical rivals, and (2) they were in geographic proximity. Travel wasn't particularly easy in the 1920's (much less 1895), so schools tended to play opponents who were relatively close by.

For example, Ohio State began playing football in 1890. The Buckeyes did not play an out-of-state team until 1895, when they played Kentucky and Centre College, both of which are in Kentucky, a bordering state. Ohio State did not play a team in a non-bordering state until 1902, when they played Illinois. Ohio State did not have a long road trip until 1917, when they played Auburn in Montgomery, Alabama. Their next long regular season road trip was to Southern Cal in 1941 (Ohio State did play in the 1921 Rose Bowl).

Ohio State stopped scheduling in-state opponents after the 1934 season. From 1890 to 1934, Ohio State played a total of 386 games, 230 of which were against in-state opponents (59.6%); 68 of which were in bordering states (17.6%); 86 were in the midwest region or in nearby (but non-bordering) states such as New York (22.3%); and 2 were long-distance trips (0.5%). Geography was a big factor in scheduling back then.

There was simply no reason for teams to schedule cupcakes back in the 1930s and prior - there were no national championships to be won, no billion dollar TV contracts at stake, no lucrative bowl bids, no marketing potential. Simply put, there was no reason, financial or otherwise, for "ALL 'big' schools [to] have feasted on 'smaller' schools" back then. And they didn't, at least not for the purpose of padding their records.

Woody Hayes did not "feast on smaller schools" either. In 28 years of coaching Ohio State, he did not play a single MAC school, directional school, division 1-AA school, etc. The only opponent that could remotely be considered a cupcake was Penn, an Ivy League school, in 1953. Otherwise Woody's non-conference opponents were strictly from major conferences such as the PAC-8 and the SWC (TCU and SMU, for example). So Woody had exactly one cupcake out of his 276 opponents.

Earle Bruce also did not "feast on smaller schools". Bruce's non-conference slate came from major conferences or major independents (Florida State, Syracuse, Pitt) with one exception: Utah in 1986. So that's one cupcake in 108 games.

John Cooper's first real cupcake didn't come until 1992, when MAC opponent Bowling Green made the schedule. So from 1951 (Woody's first year) to 1991, Ohio State had two cupcakes out of 431 opponents (that's 0.46%). So your argument - "that ALL 'big' schools have feasted on 'smaller' schools throughout the history of football" - is patently false.

In fact, the scheduling of non-conference cupcakes is a relatively recent phenomenon. In Ohio State's case, it began in 1992 and gradually grew to the point that by 2007 the non-conference schedule was Youngstown State, Kent State, Akron, and Washington. Of course, scheduling three or four non-conference cupcakes a year is routine these days, but now teams have a reason to schedule those cupcakes, namely multi-million dollar bowl bids.

I also pointed out that in recent seasons Tressel and Meyer have had the benefit of playing against MAC and FCS schools to pad their records. Its part of the same pattern that held true throughout the history of college football.
No, you are wrong, It's not the same pattern that has held true throughout the history of college football. See above. Or simply do your own research before of making statements that cannot be supported by the facts.

With regard to Meyer and Tressel, their combined record at Ohio State is 143-25 (.851 winning percentage). Take out the 34 cupcakes (any non-Power5 school) and the record drops to 109-25 (.813 winning percentage). Yeah, they both benefited from the occasional cupcake, but they both are/were pretty damned good coaches even against the real competition. The same cannot be said for Ferentz.

Is he mediocre? All I'm suggesting is that Iowa has a long history of being a .500 program. You have to measure Ferentz by that standard.
Ferentz has a .575 winning percentage at Iowa mainly because Iowa dummied down their schedule during his tenure. If you adjust for that softening of the schedule, then he's a .500 coach, which I guess makes him perfect for a .500 program.

I have no idea why he was voted those COY awards. My best guess is that is that the voters believed that - given the situations at Iowa and Ohio State - it was significantly more difficult to win at Iowa. I don't think that's an absurd point of view.
We can at least agree on this. Although that's not the entire answer why no Ohio State coach has been conference COY since Earle Bruce in 1979 - there must be some element of politics involved.
 
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We're a day away from the National Championship game and you two yentas are bickering about Iowa?:confused:

And what are you doing? Devising new ways to snuff the groundhog population of central Ohio?

Just sayin': Both posts were great.


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