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Jameis Winston (QB Browns)

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UpNorth_Buckeye said:
And if I had that in my back pocket, there's no way in hell I would jeopardize my career for an additional $10k. Or whatever the numbers may be.
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Ok the player gets 10k. What does he do with it. Be smart and make it last 4 years or blow it in 2 weeks. My guess is the players that are dumb enough to risk their career for a grand will do the latter and then end up risking their career trying to get another 10k under the table to blow in 2 weeks. The nice thing is if you allow the first 10k from boosters it means your loosening the restrictions and giving the boosters more access to these kids making it easier for them to try to take more under the table.

Bottom line is in the current system kids are being taken advantage of by the NCAA and school. If you allow the first 10k these kids also get to be taken advantage of by 100s of boosters. In addition to the NCAA and school.
 
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I will refer back to the ny times article about how in Tallahassee football trumps the law from a few pages back. At least a dozen of the FSU football players are thugs. They enjoy doing things like shooting semi auto co2 BB guns out of cars driving down a busy street and having BB gun battles in apartment complexes, stealing scooters and beating/ potentially raping women. All in the article. This is what stupid thug like people do when they are broke. Now give each of them 10k....my guess....someone is going to end up dead in a gutter.
 
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LordJeffBuck said:
You must have missed the part about "Congressional investigation". It's buried in the opening line of the law journal article:

Last I checked, Congress doesn't need "case law" to revoke a tax exemption.
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I didn't miss anything; I'm talking about tax statutes currently on the books. (That congressional investigation is dated eight years ago, so it doesn't seem to have gained much legislative traction.) Nonetheless, in response to the initial comments by BleedS&G, there may still be a basis in current code to strip the NCAA of its 501(c)(3) status if players can get money for swag, but case law would need to be there in order to know for sure.
 
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LordJeffBuck said:
It goes beyond just that. The schools themselves are 501(c)(3) organizations who could lose their tax-exempt status (at least in the area of athletics) if they are using professional athletes to generate profit.
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So it's OK if they use "amateur" athletes to make a profit?
Isn't the NFL also a 501(c)3?

Regardless, the debate seems rather moot. Judges are already ruling that these are employees not students (NW case), that they have a right to a percentage of the proceeds schools make from their likeness (O'Bannon case). Both of those will probably drag on for some time yet while the NCAA pulls every trick they can to stall. But the writing is on the wall.

Regardless of how much they're inevitably allowed to make, so long as the discrepancy between their value and their income is so disproportional there will always be a very sizable black market. Intelligence, thug, whatever has nothing to do with it -- that's just straight up economics. By grossly undervaluing them, the NCAA has created a black market, and then haphazardly attempts to police that self-created black market.
It's always going to be a losing battle rife with controversy.

ORD_Buckeye said:
Man, he's going all in with Jameis. Does FSU not have a frickin' legal department to advise this guy on what to say and when to shut his mouth.
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Their legal department already has their desk full trying to get Jameis out of this jam (again). Even FSU's own timeline describes how the Athletic Dept provided him with Jensen, whose handled myriad FSU cases over the years. And whose paying Jensen? And whose paying his newest lawyer, a hotshot known for defending professional athletes?

But if we just want to go by facts, Jameis is in the clear. The Athlethic Department is culpable, however. For a year they knew and didn't inform Title IX. The University is culpable as it took them til January 2014 to begin their so-called "investigation" (after a second girl came forward, but did not allege rape). The University also claims they had no way to compel Winston to participate in that Title IX Investigation... ummm, yea you do... FSU controls scholarship athlete's entire lives in ways that make Drill Instructors jealous - participate or be expelled. Both campus PD and Tallahassee PD are culpable for throwing the case.

If we want to stick to the facts and only the facts, Jimbo... OK. Winston stays; you're fired, your boss is fired, FSU is sanctioned as a University by DoE, FSU vacates every game Winston played since 2012, gets additional NCAA sanctions, Campus Police Chief is fired, Tallahassee Police Chief is fired, and several investigators are fired.
 
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kujirakira said:
If we want to stick to the facts and only the facts, Jimbo... OK. Winston stays; you're fired, your boss is fired, FSU is sanctioned as a University by DoE, FSU vacates every game Winston played since 2012, gets additional NCAA sanctions, Campus Police Chief is fired, Tallahassee Police Chief is fired, and several investigators are fired.
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Well, we can dream, can't we?

An afterthought: If FSU goes belly-up this week-end against ND...how long does it take for them to throw dear Jammies to the pack of wolves at the door?

(My guess? With speed astonishing even for the ess-eee-seeeeeeeee.)
 
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I don't know, once the lawsuits start flying... a lot of that isn't out of the question. Given the information the likes of Fox and NYT have been able to dig up with FOIA, the discovery period of a civil suit shows a lot of promise for a lot of dirt. Depending how much remains in the public record, the NCAA will have their investigation done for them regarding loss of institutional control.
I doubt DoE does much since FSU falls under "too big to fail". So there will just be some wrist-slapping and new guidelines while they're on double secret probation.
But Athletic Dept being forced to resign, Police Department resignations, and perhaps an eventual action by NCAA ala USC ... all that is still looming.

And the only reason that FSU is suddenly giving face value to their due diligence. So they can make some kind of argument in court.
 
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MaxBuck said:
Interesting interpretation of the IRS 501(c)(3) rule. It may or may not be accurate; it would be interesting to see whether the government could prevail if they were to claim that the NCAA were not an "educational" organization, which is the position I'd take if I were an NCAA attorney.

Like many other legal questions, this one is hard to figure without supporting case law.
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I have not looked at the structure of the NCAA's exempt area in depth but I do most of my work with nonprofit law right now. Since the individual would be receiving the profit and not the school or NCAA, I don't see how you could attribute that unrelated business income to either unless you classify the student-athlete as a member? And "member" has a very different definition with the IRS than the ordinary use of that term. Even if they did classify them as such, the NCAA would only be charged an excise tax (which is still fairly generous usually) for that amount of unrelated business income. Now if that amount got too high (there is a very nuanced calculation for that) then they could potentially have their exempt status revoked...I can't speak to that since I do not have the NCAA's ledgers, but my assumption is that it still would not be enough compared to their exempt-related income to have their status revoked.

Now as a threshold matter as to exempt related income, you just have to receive the money in a manner related to your exempt purpose or use all of the unrelated income to go to your exempt purposes. One of the accepted exempt purposes of the IRS is to advance amateur sports (as well as education obviously). If the athletes are no considered longer amateur, you would have a harder time arguing that they are advancing an exempt purpose unless the NCAA really shifted more resources to supporting academics overall (since academics is the other exempt purpose). In sum, I don't think losing the "amateur" component would completely sink the NCAA in the nonprofit arena but they would have to undergo major structural changes to keep their status...changes they would not want to make.
 
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lvbuckeye said:
Which makes it all the more heinous. The NCAA has an $18 BILLION contract with CBS for the basketball tournament. All tax free. Eighteen. Billion. Fuck football. Hoops is where it's at, apparently.

Same [Mark May] with the NFL actually. It's a 501c as well. Fuckers generate $8BB/Y, and are taxpayer funded. They could build a new stadium every year, and still makes oodles of money. Instead they put that crap on the ballot, and make future generations pay through their nose for it.

Grr. Churches too. Umm, I'm pretty sure that being tax exempt violates Separation of Church and State. The church has become the religious propaganda arm of the government. 'Be calm, quiet little sheep. Don't fight the government or stand up for your rights. Jesus is gonna rapture you to heaven and leave all those bad people behind.' except that's not how it works.

Okay, I'm done. /rant
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I agree with everything except the bolded. There is no such thing as complete separation of church and state, just that the state cannot confer benefits to a religion/denomination to the exclusion of others. The IRS offers the exemption to all religions/denomination and also to plenty of secular purposes...there are twenty-some secular purposes that receive exemptions.
 
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Warning: ESPiN article linked, but first I'm seeing of this angle to the story. Sounds like Winston's most current lawyer (Cornwell) is about to throw FSU in front of the train to keep Jameis clear.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...wyer-challenges-university-hearing?src=mobile

Lawyer: FSU isn't following its policy

Florida State quarterback Jameis Winston's attorney has challenged why the university plans to conduct a disciplinary hearing nearly two years after Winston was accused of sexually assaulting a former FSU student in December 2012.

In a letter sent to FSU general counsel Carolyn Egan on Tuesday, Atlanta-based attorney David Cornwell asked why FSU plans to conduct a hearing, which he said would ignore the university's sexual harassment policy and the U.S. Department of Education's guidelines for conducting a Title IX investigation, which require that an inquiry be completed in a timely manner.

"Winston's cooperation came with the expectation that the process would be fair," Cornwell wrote in the letter. "In this regard, I advise FSU that I believe 'Mr. Winston is entitled to an explanation for FSU's decision to ignore its own policy with respect to the timeliness of the Title IX process.'"
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