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It Looks Like I was Right (Hurricane Katrina Merged)

BuckeyeNation27 said:
I understand they wouldn't let them....what I'm wondering is why? If I was in there and wanted to leave after the storm had passed, I would be pretty upset. Especially now knowing all the hell they went through with the rival gangs and crap. If I wanted to leave knowing what was out there, who are they to say I have to stay? What if I have family in Northern LA or somewhere else where I could stay?

I think the idea goes to they thought that there was more help coming in. They had no idea what was going on outside of the superdome. I wouldn't make mmuch sense to let them just wander the streets. They probally assumed as soon as more help got there they would be able to get these people to their homes to see how the damage was, not knowing how bad everything else was
 
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My thoughts also are with BuckNOLA. He got 250 miles away, so let's hope that was in the right direction and that it is just a case of power outage.

Back in the mid-70s, I was activated during a blizzard in Columbus. We also had looting beginning and eventually were some of the NCOs were issued with live rounds. People were drinking alcohol to stay warm. We went through a trailer park and could not convince an armed man who had been drinking to leave his trailer home. Another team found him frozen to death that afternoon. One team found a retarded couple sheltering their baby between themselves, tears frozen on their faces and massively frostbitten. The baby was sleeping peacefully and unharmed. They returned to the unit for lunch a month later. Another team were forced to take aim at looters in a Kroger store before they would disperse. I had to intervene to stop well-heeled Upper Arlington residents looting a supermarket on Northwest Boulevard.

People everywhere will react badly when under such great stress. Nevertheless, I am amazed to be watchin CNN now and to hear that people are sniping at the helicopters!

NOLA, we're thinkin' about you and you are in our prayers!
 
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how much frickin money is being spent to have news stations from all over the country being flown in and powered remotely... and yet we still can't get aid to some of these obvious locations like this convention center?
 
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On MSNBC they just had a report from the Astrodome. They have it set up with a ton of cots, they will get 3 meals a day and they are going to be sending busses on a daily basis and have the kids attend school in Houston schools. They said they are starting to register people so that they will have a database so that people can figure out if missing family members are there

on a lower point fema is sending in barges that will serve as a floating morge for the bodies
 
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BuckeyeNation27 said:
As much as I enjoy 2 people (one of which isn't me) going at it, do we really think this is the thread to be bickering?

Finally, a voice of reason emerges on page 14.

A couple people hit it right...how's our Buckeye doing down there? I can't imagine what's going through his mind right now.
 
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jwinslow said:
I was referring to the trailer park comment, which was not by thump.

Then you must be referring to my post which clearly contained the word "IF". As in, "If someone took the time to read a post before getting their panties bunched we wouldn't have to waste time with posts like this one".

It was pretty clear I wasn't making fun of Donny or any other poor soul trapped down there in that carnage but alas, some people just live for the opportunity to get morally indignant.
 
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This thread is going in 10 different directions. How about the fighting/joking replies going to the RR and we get back to showing concern for NOLA and the others in the whole region?

I can't even imagine the level of destruction and despair.
 
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Not to be really gruesome or anything, but if you look back on history, you can see how desperation and starvation led to events like the Donner Party and such. It's really crazy what these conditions will do to mind and body. Not to say that people are going to start eating each other, but I think you get the point.

Just another thought I had: I don't think the terrorists could have done this much damage if they tried. :(
 
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OSUsushichic said:
Not to be really gruesome or anything, but if you look back on history, you can see how desperation and starvation led to events like the Donner Party and such. It's really crazy what these conditions will do to mind and body. Not to say that people are going to start eating each other, but I think you get the point.

Just another thought I had: I don't think the terrorists could have done this much damage if they tried. :(
Me and my dad had this conversation over lunch. If the terrorists are watching and have any sense of intelligence, they will stop bombing our buildings and go straight for the oil rigs. I can't even imagine how much this is going to kill our economy.
 
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NOLA

It is very interesting to see the response of the people in NOLA. I know that the authorities are doing their best, but can't we helicopter in supplies (water/food/ice)? This city is governed with an entitlement culture and you are seeing the fruit of governing people in a way that makes them believe that the gov't will and should save them. Unfortunately, these are people that have needs and we need to take care of them. Our prayers are with them.
 
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is there still value to what's buried under water? I realize they have to live somewhere, I'm just curious what they get out of moving all of that water out of there (if we ignore the disease aspect of the water).

all I know was donny had no business being brought up except in concern for him... I guess it was the combination of the two that just seemed out of place then. Who knows.
 
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Mayor Nagin - Sending Out an SOS

Things had better get right and in a hurry ...
NOLA Mayor near end of his tether -- which seems to be about where many residents are headed...
The Mayor's SOS
The plea from Mayor Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured in to help restore order and put a stop to the looting, carjackings and gunfire that have gripped New Orleans in the days since Hurricane Katrina plunged much of the city under water.
About 15,000 to 20,000 people who had taken shelter at the convention center to await buses were growing angry and restless in what appeared to be a potentially explosive situation. In hopes of defusing it, the mayor gave them permission to march across a bridge to the city's unflooded west bank for whatever relief they can find.
In a statement to CNN, he said: "This is a desperate SOS. Right now we are out of resources at the convention center and don't anticipate enough buses. We need buses. Currently the convention center is unsanitary and unsafe and we're running our of supplies."
....

"We need an effort of 9-11 proportions," former New Orleans Mayor Marc Morial, now president of the Urban League, said on NBC's "Today" show.
"A great American city is fighting for its life," he added. "We must rebuild New Orleans, the city that gave us jazz, and music, and multiculturalism."

Desperate Times .... Desperate People ...

"Hospitals are trying to evacuate," said Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Cheri Ben-Iesan, spokesman at the city emergency operations center. "At every one of them, there are reports that as the helicopters come in people are shooting at them. There are people just taking potshots at police and at helicopters, telling them, `You better come get my family.'"
Some Federal Emergency Management rescue operations were suspended in areas where gunfire has broken out, Homeland Security spokesman Russ Knocke said in Washington. "In areas where our employees have been determined to potentially be in danger, we have pulled back," he said.
A National Guard military policeman was shot in the leg as he and a man scuffled for the MP's rifle, police Capt. Ernie Demmo said. The man was arrested.
"These are good people. These are just scared people," Demmo said.

....................


Lt. Gov. Mitch Landrieu toured the stricken areas said rescued people begged him to pass information to their families. His pocket was full of scraps of paper on which he had scribbled down their phone numbers.
When he got a working phone in the early morning hours Thursday, he contacted a woman whose father had been rescued and told her: "Your daddy's alive, and he said to tell you he loves you." "She just started crying. She said, `I thought he was dead,'" he said.
 
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Very good article:

Let Katrina Be a Warning By John Carey, with Lorraine Woellert and Eamon Javers in Washington and Otis Port in New York
Thu Sep 1, 8:16 AM ET



It is a natural disaster of unprecedented proportions for America. But the irony and the tragedy of the killer storm called Katrina is that the hurricane's devastating effects were entirely predictable -- and largely preventable.

Engineers have known for years that New Orleans levees couldn't withstand anything above a Category 3 hurricane. Ecologists had long warned that the loss of protective barrier islands and coastal wetlands made everything along the Gulf Coast, from refineries to vacation homes, far more vulnerable to major storms.

Scientists have been learning that, for whatever reasons, hurricanes have become more destructive over the past 30 years. And with the world's oil-producing and gasoline-refining capabilities strained, it has been clear that storm-related damage to the highly concentrated Gulf Coast energy industry could be hugely disruptive to the nation's oil, gasoline, and natural gas supplies.

HELPFUL PROGRAMS ERODED. Yet not only have these warnings gone largely unheeded but for years government policies have been putting the country at a greater risk of both natural disasters and energy shocks. Along the Gulf, "we've had a tremendously irresponsible policy, destroying protective natural features while encouraging risky and precarious development," says Frederick Krimgold, director of Virginia Tech's disaster risk reduction program. And although Congress passed an energy bill in August, it does almost nothing to solve the problems exposed by Katrina.

The major lesson policymakers should draw from the catastrophe is just how vulnerable the U.S. is becoming to natural disasters and energy disruptions. In fact, some experts say, Americans have been mistakenly lulled into thinking terrorism is the most pressing threat -- and they argue that the relentless focus on staving off suicide bombers has left crucial gaps elsewhere.

Case in point: After the huge 1993 Mississippi River flood, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) began buying up floodplain property, preventing people from rebuilding and being swept away again. But that effort, and a larger FEMA mitigation program, no longer exists.

And just this summer, the proposed funding for the New Orleans Army Corps of Engineers district was cut by $71 million for fiscal 2006. Shelved, among other items, was a study to determine ways to protect the region from a Category 5 hurricane.

POLICY LESSONS. Americans are already paying the price for these policy lapses in the form of higher energy costs. And inevitably, natural disasters will hit other parts of the nation, in part just because of more development. New York and Washington certainly aren't immune, warns John N. McHenry, chief scientist at Baron Advanced Meteorological Systems, a forecasting outfit in Raleigh, N.C. Says McHenry: "It would not take much to flood all of Manhattan."

Everyone with an agenda is pushing his pet ideas as a solution. House Energy & Commerce Committee Chairman Joe Barton (R-Tex.) thinks that our energy woes can be solved with more production. "We could be drilling in Alaska right now," he says.

On the other side of the political spectrum, activist Robert F. Kennedy Jr. blames the Bush Administration for failing to push tough fuel economy standards and curbs on global warming. Says Kennedy: "Katrina is giving our nation a glimpse of the climate chaos we are bequeathing our children."

Partisan fulminations aside, there are policy lessons from Katrina on both the energy and the natural resource management fronts. Here's what could be done:

Restore natural buffer zones

The combination of the Mississippi River levees and oil and gas development has had a devastating effect on the whole Gulf Coast. The levees prevent sediment from reaching the delta. Meanwhile, oil and gas companies have dug channels through the wetlands and sucked oil from underneath, causing the land to sink, saltwater to intrude -- and thousands of acres to submerge.

Although reclamation measures were already under way to restore Gulf marshlands, they were too little too late. "I'm hoping that one lesson to come out of this is that talk about rolling back protections for wetlands (all across the country) will end," says Yale University ecologist David K. Skelly.

Limit development in the most vulnerable areas

Experts say it's crazy to keep building casinos and vacation homes on coastal dunes, barrier islands, and other vulnerable spots. One solution is to stop offering federal insurance for such projects. Another is to put the land off limits to development. During the Clinton Administration, FEMA "was working hard" to slow such development, says Virginia Tech's Krimgold. But such efforts ended after FEMA became part of the Homeland Security Dept.

Aiming for a better balance of risk and development means tough decisions. A city like New Orleans, lying in a vast bowl below sea level and protected by fragile levees in a hurricane belt, probably should never have been built. But once it was there, more effort should have been put into strengthening the levees and the city's pumping system. "We knew this was a danger, and it was clearly brought to our attention," says Senator Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), who is working on a bill to improve emergency communications during disasters.

Get serious about climate change

"It is increasingly clear that global warming makes (hurricanes) more severe and destructive," asserts former Energy Dept. official Joseph Romm. "Katrina is the shape of things to come." Plus, action to combat climate change, such as increased development of renewable sources, has the additional beneficial effect of reducing the nation's vulnerability to energy shocks.

Make a Presidential appeal

In the short term, experts suggest, President Bush could minimize the impact on gasoline prices simply by asking Americans to be more aware and careful -- by inflating tires, tuning up cars, and driving more slowly. The Environmental Protection Agency also relaxed clean fuel standards to reduce the number of gasoline formulations refineries need to make and to open the door to more imports. Over the medium term, moving to a single national standard for gasoline would reduce pressure on stressed refineries.

Increase energy diversity

Over the longer term, the answer is greater diversity -- of sources, geographic locations, types of energy -- and greater use of energy-efficiency measures. Combined, these steps would make the economy more immune to energy shocks.

A number of states, for instance, have already required that a certain percentage of electricity be generated from renewable sources. A national standard would help even more to reduce the impact of shortages or price spikes in natural gas.

Boost energy efficiency

Improving the fuel economy of the cars and trucks Americans drive to 40 mpg would save 6 million barrels of oil a day, many times more than is being lost because of Katrina.

Indeed, all these policies are simple, if not easy, and most have been suggested for years. In the end, Katrina could be a wake-up call for pols to finally stop posturing and get serious about the nation's energy vulnerabilities. If they don't, cataclysms like Katrina could happen again
 
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The whole thing is surreal. I've been looking at the pictures and reading the reports, but it's still mind-boggling.

My company has plants in the area, one of which is between NO and Gulfport. There are people here in the offices working on trying to asses the plant damage (significant) and, more importantly, contact all of the employees. I was talking to someone earlier today who said that we still had not heard from about 75% of the employees there, and the ones they had heard from are all homeless.

That just drove it home a bit more, I guess....
 
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This is a good read from someone at LSU who experienced it.

Editor's note: The following is a firsthand account from Bill Martin, a student assistant in the sports information office at LSU, of the devastation from Hurricane Katrina being felt in Baton Rouge and the horrors he witnessed on Tuesday night and into Wednesday.

http://www.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=1014&CID=449461


Here is a piece of the article that tell just how chaotic it is there right now:

We finished the night hauling boxes of body bags and more were on the way. As we left, a man was strolled in on a stretcher and scarily enough he suffered gunshots. The paramedic said he was shot several times because a looter or a convict needed his boat and he wouldn't give it to him.

Another man with him said it was "an uncivilized society no better than Iraq down there right now." A few minutes later, he was unconscious and later pronounced dead. I then left as they were strolling a 3-year old kid in on a stretcher. I couldn't take it anymore.
 
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