Illinois Fighting Illini (you'll see)

[jwinslow]

Roughy, you need to come around here more often.

Ditto that.

lincoln logs

That's gold, Jerry! GOLD!

 

[shetuck]

Okay, so all of this back and forth with rankings and ratings and zookings leaves me a bit confused...

Am I correct to conclude that what we've proven here is that under Zooker's visionary leadership, Illinois has, at long last, solidified their position as a perennial powerhouse among the also-rans (aka the second tier) of Big Ten football?

... one conference championship per decade notwithstanding.

 

[TheIronColonel]

Personally, I don't mind the "yay we got 7 blue-chippers" talk so much as the "we're going to win an NC this year, eat our shit!" talk. I don't think anybody in their right mind would claim that the Zooker hasn't improved recruiting at Illinois; he certainly has. But Illinois is still Illinois. They'll be moderately better due to talent, and occasionally they'll knock off a power team. Heck, they might even squeek into BCS bowls from time to time.

That being said, they're not an elite team by any means. I don't get the impression that Roughy buys it, though I think ThaKid and his ilk are sold hook, line, and sinker.

If Zook can ever hire and retain some top-flight assistant coaches, Illinois could be a contender. Right now, they just don't develop talent that well (see: Williams, Juice). Joes will only take you so far - X's and O's still matter.

 

[OrangeRoughy]

Okay, so all of this back and forth with rankings and ratings and zookings leaves me a bit confused...

Am I correct to conclude that what we've proven here is that under Zooker's visionary leadership, Illinois has, at long last, solidified their position as a perennial powerhouse among the also-rans (aka the second tier) of Big Ten football?

... one conference championship per decade notwithstanding.

SOLD.

Seriously, where do I sign up for "perennial powerhouse among the also-rans"?

 

[Gatorubet]

Roughy, you need to come around here more often.

The grace he has in replying to Mili is impressive.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

So.... you told me that only the '07 and '08 classes were solid and I showed you otherwise?

Show me where you "showed you otherwise". If your 2009 class was better than your 2008 class, then why wasn't it ranked by either Rivals or Scout, whereas your 2008 class was #23 by Rivals and #19 by Scout? You countered with "Using Rivals, 2009 had more 4-stars in 2009 than 2008. The main difference I see is 9 less scholarships to give. Add seven or eight more 3-stars to this class, and 2009 would have ranked higher than 2008." First, your 2008 class had 28 commits and your 2009 class had 21 commits, so that's 7 less ships for 2009, not 9. Second, of your 21 commits for 2009, seven of them were 4-stars (no 5-stars), or exactly a 33% rate. Giving you seven more ships to match the 2008 total, would give you three more 4-stars and four more 3-or-less stars (and that's actually rounding up). You really think adding those would push your 2009 class from #35 to #23 or better on Rivals, and from ranked who-knows-where to ranked #19 or better on Scout?

Granted, no school has the exact same recruiting ratings year after year (except for USC being #1 or #2 every damn year). Still, I don't see the major improvement in Zook's recruiting. Now, is he recruiting better than his predecessors? Yeah, I'll go for that. But, my point is a ton of folks, even outside of the Illinois football enclave, seem to think Zook is some sort of Zen-master recruiter. Sorry, But I don't...

As for your claim of going 10-3 in 2009, I'll make you a side bet. If Illinois goes 10-3 or better in 2009, I'll put a picture of Zook in my signature block with a caption of your choice (within reason, of course) for a month, and will have an admin transfer 100,000 vCash from me to you. If Illinois, goes less than 10-3, but has a winning record, then it's a wash. If Illinois goes 6-6 or worse, then you have to put "[insert season record here]...same old Illinois" as your signature for a month, so a 5-7 record means "5-7...same old Illinois" as your sig. Deal?

 

[shetuck]

...Seriously, where do I sign up for "perennial powerhouse among the also-rans"?

You can only sell your soul to the devil once... :p

 

[OrangeRoughy]

Personally, I don't mind the "yay we got 7 blue-chippers" talk so much as the "we're going to win an NC this year, eat our [censored]!" talk. I don't think anybody in their right mind would claim that the Zooker hasn't improved recruiting at Illinois; he certainly has. But Illinois is still Illinois. They'll be moderately better due to talent, and occasionally they'll knock off a power team. Heck, they might even squeek into BCS bowls from time to time.

That being said, they're not an elite team by any means. I don't get the impression that Roughy buys it, though I think ThaKid and his ilk are sold hook, line, and sinker.

It's a two step process. And we're just starting to get there with step #1. If we can put together, say, 8 bowl games in the next 10 years (pinch me), then I'll start thinking about making that impossible climb to "elite". A few years ago we averaged 39,000 in attendance. I don't care who you are - you're not climbing the elite ranks until you start filling all 62,000 seats on a regular basis, causing a south endzone rebuild to add more seats.

If Zook can ever hire and retain some top-flight assistant coaches, Illinois could be a contender. Right now, they just don't develop talent that well (see: Williams, Juice). Joes will only take you so far - X's and O's still matter.

As I noted earlier, we've taken a tiny step in that direction. Out is between-the-20s Locksley, in is TCU's offensive coordinator Mike Schultz. Out is OH-recruiter-but-questionable-coach Eric Wolford, in is Houston's O-line coach. Out is Tom Sims, in is Cincy's D-line coach. Most importantly, Locksley is no longer Juice's position coach - Bobby Beathard's son is.

Will it help? Can't hurt.

 

[Muck]

That being said, they're not an elite team by any means. I don't get the impression that Roughy buys it, though I think ThaKid and his ilk are sold hook, line, and sinker.

I have a feeling Roughy has watched just a wee bit more football for a few years longer than TheKid.

 

[OrangeRoughy]

Show me where you "showed you otherwise". If your 2009 class was better than your 2008 class, then why wasn't it ranked by either Rivals or Scout, whereas your 2008 class was #23 by Rivals and #19 by Scout? You countered with "Using Rivals, 2009 had more 4-stars in 2009 than 2008. The main difference I see is 9 less scholarships to give. Add seven or eight more 3-stars to this class, and 2009 would have ranked higher than 2008." First, your 2008 class had 28 commits and your 2009 class had 21 commits, so that's 7 less ships for 2009, not 9. Second, of your 21 commits for 2009, seven of them were 4-stars (no 5-stars), or exactly a 33% rate. Giving you seven more ships to match the 2008 total, would give you three more 4-stars and four more 3-or-less stars (and that's actually rounding up). You really think adding those would push your 2009 class from #35 to #23 or better on Rivals, and from ranked who-knows-where to ranked #19 or better on Scout?

This year only has 20 - Darryl Lee never signed and is headed to Juco. Average stars in 2009: 3.1 - Average stars in 2008: 3.0

But we're splitting the split hairs at this point.

As for your claim of going 10-3 in 2009, I'll make you a side bet. If Illinois goes 10-3 or better in 2009, I'll put a picture of Zook in my signature block with a caption of your choice (within reason, of course) for a month, and will have an admin transfer 100,000 vCash from me to you. If Illinois, goes less than 10-3, but has a winning record, then it's a wash. If Illinois goes 6-6 or worse, then you have to put "[insert season record here]...same old Illinois" as your signature for a month, so a 5-7 record means "5-7...same old Illinois" as your sig. Deal?

Are we talkin' big large font with orange letters? 'Cause I could go for some of that.

If so, deal.

 

[OrangeRoughy]

I have a feeling Roughy has watched just a wee bit more football for a few years longer than TheKid.

Fun fact that you guys may no know: ThaKid first appeared on the Illinois boards pimping himself as a high school linebacking sophomore. He linked an altered article from a Chicago newspaper listing himself as "the top sophomore in the state" who will garner "multiple high major offers in both football and basketball".

In 2006, he moved to a different school (Zion-Benton - the school you guys are getting hoops recruit Lenzelle Smith from). He predicted a state championship, and if memory serves, they finished 1-8. And he failed to make the varsity team.

 

[NFBuck]

Fun fact that you guys may no know: ThaKid first appeared on the Illinois boards pimping himself as a high school linebacking sophomore. He linked an altered article from a Chicago newspaper listing himself as "the top sophomore in the state" who will garner "multiple high major offers in both football and basketball".

In 2006, he moved to a different school (Zion-Benton - the school you guys are getting hoops recruit Lenzelle Smith from). He predicted a state championship, and if memory serves, they finished 1-8. And he failed to make the varsity team.

Pathetic.

 

[OrangeRoughy]

Oh, one other thing, and then I'm going to do some work.

Since I can't leave this afternoon without a little bit of Illinois schmack...

The 2009 Illini will have the top receiving corps in the Big Ten, and top-3 in the country. When we line up 4-wide with off-to-the-NFL-next-year Arrelious Benn, how-did-he-get-in-to-school Jeff Cumberland, 5-star-transfer-from-Florida Jarred Fayson, and Parade-Magazine-top-receiver-in-the-2009-class Terry Hawthorne, it will be the most skill player talent we've ever put on the field.

Now, we don't have an especially accurate QB, not to mention I don't think we have a single D-1 linebacker on the roster, but dammit, top. three. receiving. corps. in. the. country.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

Fun fact that you guys may no know: ThaKid first appeared on the Illinois boards pimping himself as a high school linebacking sophomore. He linked an altered article from a Chicago newspaper listing himself as "the top sophomore in the state" who will garner "multiple high major offers in both football and basketball".

In 2006, he moved to a different school (Zion-Benton - the school you guys are getting hoops recruit Lenzelle Smith from). He predicted a state championship, and if memory serves, they finished 1-8. And he failed to make the varsity team.

Can we unban him and invite him back here for a week?

 

[Muck]

Fun fact that you guys may no know: ThaKid first appeared on the Illinois boards pimping himself as a high school linebacking sophomore. He linked an altered article from a Chicago newspaper listing himself as "the top sophomore in the state" who will garner "multiple high major offers in both football and basketball".

In 2006, he moved to a different school (Zion-Benton - the school you guys are getting hoops recruit Lenzelle Smith from). He predicted a state championship, and if memory serves, they finished 1-8. And he failed to make the varsity team.

Oh the fun we could have with that...