Illinois Fighting Illini (you'll see)

[jimotis4heisman]

I can dismiss the big ten championship talk and NC talk, because well that it what it is...A pipedream...

But what I can't get over is Zook being a great talent evaluator because he has pulled a couple 2 stars/3 stars that have been solid players...

Honestly he is pulling guys that we are not going after in Ohio...He is offering any kid that has any type of interest from big ten schools...I like his approach in Ohio, as a way to build some depth at Illinois and occasionally grab the big one like Cordale Scott, Melvin Fellows (if you hold on) but if you can honestly tell me that Zook would rather have the guys he is pulling from Ohio than the ones that we are then you are solely mistaken...I mean if you guys are going to Miami-esque, they better just but some NFL jerseys on our backs and we will go win the superbowl...

I mean come on be realistic...Zook is offering all these guys earlier than us, because he knows that is his best chance to pull these guys, and he knows those are the types of kids that he really wants...So we are taking Zooks first and second choices, while you are getting his third choices that we aren't sending offers too...You guys may pull guys like Studlein, Mason, Harris, guys that we don't offer...

Yes I know Zook is pulling guys from other states as well, but other than Illinois he is not pulling the top dogs...Yes I know stars don't tell the story all the time, but they are a good gauge...So for being ranked in the the 20-30 range in terms of recruiting class, and saying you are going to start churning out prospects like Thug U is a little over the top and it is even more crazier when you put it into context that you are trying to tell a board full of buckeye fans about this considering we have been recruiting better than Zooker and Illini for years and we don't even claim to put out talent like that...

BTW if you could let me know where you got that stuff I could really use some...

why are big ten titles pipedreams? ill had one what six years ago? they played in another bcs bowl this year. in the late 80s early 90s illini owned osu. could it happen again, yup, will it happen again, at some point yes. chicago provides very fertile recruiting grounds, notre dame, wisc and iowa have all recruited will there recently. with two of those being sub par the last couple of years and wisc with a new hc it provides a very good oppurtunity for zook. many of you overlook that zook was an ohio boy, he recruited ohio-pretty well for earle. he has a history with some of the coaches in the state.

reality is the illini provide an excellent second option for kids in the state. lets be honest in ohio their is a core that will go to ohio state no matter what, a borderline group and a group up for grabs. those last two groups are up for grabs and the kids that zook is going after hard.

 

[wadc45]

Illinois has approximately 23 offers out for the 2009 class.
Ohio State has approximately 18 offers out for the 2009 class.

Maybe it's time to update those numbers?

44 Illinois offers in the Rivals database.
26 OSU offers in the Rivals database.

 

[matcar]

why are big ten titles pipedreams? ill had one what six years ago? they played in another bcs bowl this year. in the late 80s early 90s illini owned osu. could it happen again, yup, will it happen again, at some point yes. chicago provides very fertile recruiting grounds, notre dame, wisc and iowa have all recruited will there recently. with two of those being sub par the last couple of years and wisc with a new hc it provides a very good oppurtunity for zook. many of you overlook that zook was an ohio boy, he recruited ohio-pretty well for earle. he has a history with some of the coaches in the state.

reality is the illini provide an excellent second option for kids in the state. lets be honest in ohio their is a core that will go to ohio state no matter what, a borderline group and a group up for grabs. those last two groups are up for grabs and the kids that zook is going after hard.

I agree with this. But I also agree with ORoughy when he says that there are dozens of other schools that can make the same claims as far as a National Championship. Illinois is on the rise, which is great. There's a possibility that they can get the right mix of good fortune and good play to make a run just as some other teams have done, but the odds are still stacked against them. While Illinois is rising, tOSU is also rising, amazingly. Also, MSU seems to be stoking the fires again too. All this will make a run a wee bit more difficult. I think it's possible, but not likely.

 

[ThaKid101]

What some people are mixing up is I didn't say.....nevermind....I've been hit with an infraction and been told to "grow up" so I'll just leave it alone 'cause apparently I guess stating my opinions on my team is considered "trolling" or "flaming". See you guys when the season starts...congrats to OSU on your recruiting success...keep it up.

 

[NFBuck]

What some people are mixing up is I didn't say.....nevermind....I've been hit with an infraction and been told to "grow up" so I'll just leave it alone 'cause apparently I guess stating my opinions on my team is considered "trolling" or "flaming". See you guys when the season starts...congrats to OSU on your recruiting success...keep it up.

Don't take it so personal xray...

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

What some people are mixing up is I didn't say.....nevermind....I've been hit with an infraction and been told to "grow up" so I'll just leave it alone 'cause apparently I guess stating my opinions on my team is considered "trolling" or "flaming". See you guys when the season starts...congrats to OSU on your recruiting success...keep it up.

You were asked repeatedly to tone down the blatant and over-whelming homerism. You refused.

And ding-whining is frowned upon around here. Bemoaning your plight won't make you any friends.

And comrades, this:

Illinois/Zook Recruiting 03-06-2008 01:15 PM ThaKid101 No ding-whining!

is a call to arms to rectify my incompetence! Make it so!

 

[shetuck]

What some people are mixing up is I didn't say.....nevermind....I've been hit with an infraction and been told to "grow up" so I'll just leave it alone 'cause apparently I guess stating my opinions on my team is considered "trolling" or "flaming". See you guys when the season starts...congrats to OSU on your recruiting success...keep it up.

Good luck to you too. Thanks for playin'. Here's a parting gift for ya...

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

1 good year? They did go to the Sugar Bowl in '01 (Got murdered by LSU though) and while it probably wouldn't be considered a good year to you, a decent year in 1999 when they beat Michigan and MURDERED Viriginia and Thomas Jones in the Micron PC Bowl. So that's 3 right there including this past year.

Since 1990, Illinois has had one 10-win season (2001), one 9-win season (2007), and two 8-win seasons (1990 and 1997). Four seasons out of 18 with more than seven wins. Illinois tends to have a great year every decade or so (10-2 in 1983, 10-2, in 1989, and 10-2 in 2001). They peak up to that great season and then immediately go back down. Had you beat USC in the Rose Bowl, you would've had your once a decade or so great season at 10-3. Despite all the nice talent you have now and have coming in, I just don't see history changing. Maybe Zook can earn "great years" a little more often than once a decade, but to think that Illinois will rise to a consistently elite level in the Big Ten is just laughable.

 

[sandgk]

And comrades, this:

Illinois/Zook Recruiting 03-06-2008 01:15 PM ThaKid101 No ding-whining!

is a call to arms to rectify my incompetence! Make it so!

dings gone wrong whining?

 

[OrangeRoughy]

I can dismiss the big ten championship talk and NC talk, because well that it what it is...A pipedream...

As I said before, the first mistake is listening to someone from the Illini Scout board. The second mistake is dismissing it completely.

I know you're focused on Ohio - and rightly so - but Zook is doing the same thing in several areas around the country. He's hired a few connected assistants giving us recruiting inroads in DC (Arreilous Benn, Vontae Davis), Jacksonville, Florida (D'Angelo McCray, Troy Pollard), and, yes, Ohio (Cordale Scott, Melvin Fellows). He doesn't need to hit consistent home runs in Ohio - the majority of the top flight talent will always matriculate to Columbus (as it should be). But if he can steal a Scott or a Fellows from time to time, and steal Vontae Davis and Reggie Ellis away from Maryland, and steal McCray and Liuget away from Florida, then we're getting somewhere. Combine that with stopping the 30-year flow of top-tier Chicago talent to Notre Dame, Michigan, and Wisconsin, and then we're really getting somewhere. And yes, we're finally getting somewhere.

Zook went to Florida and pulled D'Angelo McCray away from Florida and Florida State. He went to Miami and pulled Corey Liuget away from The U and LSU. He went to Pennsylvania and pulled Hubie Graham away from Penn State and Michigan. He went to DC and pulled Arrelious Benn away from, well, everyone. You have to understand that that's NEVER happened in my 25 years as a fan. Ever. Combine that with the fact that he's found a way to keep big time in-state talent like Juice Williams, Martez Wilson, Josh Brent, Graham Pocic, and others home, and I can easily say he's the greatest recruiter in University of Illinois history. THAT'S why we're so excited.

So we are taking Zooks first and second choices, while you are getting his third choices that we aren't sending offers too.

Now you're just being silly. Saying that you are "taking Zook's first and second choices" implies that Ron Zook is wringing his hands over pulling Marcus Hall out of Ohio. We offered him just like you offered Craig Drummond from Illinois - any coach in their right mind will offer can't miss prospects like that. But Tressel is the one stressed about keeping Marcus Hall home, just like Zook is stressed about keeping Craig Drummond home. With all the connections Zook has made in the Chicago Public League, he should be able to bring Drummond to Champaign. Just like the connections Tressel has with Ginn Sr., he should be able to bring Hall to Columbus. If they go the other way, it's a huge victory for the out-of-state team and a big blow to the home team.

Zook's strategy is as follows:
1) Lock down Illinois borders and keep top-flight talent home.
2) Establish connections in specific areas where we have an in (thus far, Ohio, DC, and Jacksonville, FL) and pull one or two players from these areas.
3) Throw a few darts at top-flight talent across the country and see if any stick. Occasionally (Corey Liuget), they do.

What's that you say? Why haven't you heard the majority of names I'm throwing out? Because we're only in year 3 of Zook's rebuilding project. The fruits of his recruiting success won't be fully visible until year 5 and beyond. But as we rapidly approach that time, keep this in mind: this is not your father's Illinois team.

 

[BB73]

keep this in mind: this is not your father's Illinois team.

Some of us have been around so long, our father's Illinois team was coached by Zuppke.

 

[wadc45]

Some of us have been around so long, our father's Illinois team was coached by Zuppke.

Your father? Or did you mean you?

 

[OrangeRoughy]

Since 1990, Illinois has had one 10-win season (2001), one 9-win season (2007), and two 8-win seasons (1990 and 1997). Four seasons out of 18 with more than seven wins. Illinois tends to have a great year every decade or so (10-2 in 1983, 10-2, in 1989, and 10-2 in 2001). They peak up to that great season and then immediately go back down. Had you beat USC in the Rose Bowl, you would've had your once a decade or so great season at 10-3. Despite all the nice talent you have now and have coming in, I just don't see history changing. Maybe Zook can earn "great years" a little more often than once a decade, but to think that Illinois will rise to a consistently elite level in the Big Ten is just laughable.

*right click, save* Oh wait - you guys hang on to your posts over here. Good. I'm glad this one will be around in 6 years.

I'm glad you chose the timeframe you did, because I walked onto campus in the fall of 1991 and have followed Illinois recruiting very closely since. The 1990 team (Jeff George, Darrick Brownlow, Howard Griffith) was the closest thing to having a solid line a blue chippers on the bench. John Mackovic was pretty solid at recruiting. After he left for Texas, I don't think we had one single top-25 recruiting class from 1991 to 2006 (that's easy to track back to 2001. There wasn't much of a consensus before that - I was forced to rely on Tom Lemming's "Notre Dame is so friggin' awesome" recruiting rankings) As I stated earlier in this thread, neither Tepper or Turner cared much for recruiting. And the results on the field showed.

So when you saw those occasional "great years", it was mostly luck. We pulled in Simeon Rice and Kevin Hardy in the mid 90s and had a few good years with Tepper's D. Got Kurt Kittner, Brandon Lloyd, and a host of solid offensive linemen (none besides Kitter were very highly regarded recruits) and had some good years in 1999 and 2001 with Turner's O. But in the rest of our years, our 6th-through-10th ranked recruiting classes gave us 6th-though-10th place results.

But now, something's different. After five 4-star recruits from '02 to '05, we've pulled in 18 (two of 'em 5-stars) in the last three years. After averaging a 9th-place-in-the-Big-Ten finish in the recruiting rankings from '02 to '05, we've been a consensus 4th, 3rd, and 3rd the last three years. We've had three straight classes ranked higher than Wisconsin, two straight ranked higher than Penn State, and four straight better than Purdue and Michigan State. While those aren't the numbers of a National Championship contender, they're not the numbers of a "great season once a decade or so" team either. I think you'll see a Wisconsin-like run for the Illini over the next 10 years. And given the fertile recruiting ground in Illinois, there's an outside chance at that aforementioned "consistently elite level".

I know, I know - recruiting rankings doesn't always relate to wins. Zook still needs to prove he can coach. Most reasonable Illini fans are in full agreement with that. But when we see that the three players who have verballed for the 2009 class - Fellows, Buckner, and Hill - were all ranked as 4-stars when Scout's most recent update came out, and we see that equals the same number of 4-star recruits that found their way onto the Memorial Stadium turf from the 2002, 2003, and 2004 recruiting classes combined, we can't help but get excited.

 

[Sportsbuck28]

What some people are mixing up is I didn't say.....nevermind....I've been hit with an infraction and been told to "grow up" so I'll just leave it alone 'cause apparently I guess stating my opinions on my team is considered "trolling" or "flaming". See you guys when the season starts...congrats to OSU on your recruiting success...keep it up.

It's fine to state your opinions... but guarenteeing a NC or B10C is where you cross the line. Hell, you don't see any Buckeye fans doing that despite us returning 20 starters.

Don't worry about the infraction, I got one too. Battle scars.

 

[Sportsbuck28]

But now, something's different. After five 4-star recruits from '02 to '05, we've pulled in 18 (two of 'em 5-stars) in the last three years. After averaging a 9th-place-in-the-Big-Ten finish in the recruiting rankings from '02 to '05, we've been a consensus 4th, 3rd, and 3rd the last three years. We've had three straight classes ranked higher than Wisconsin, two straight ranked higher than Penn State, and four straight better than Purdue and Michigan State. While those aren't the numbers of a National Championship contender, they're not the numbers of a "great season once a decade or so" team either. I think you'll see a Wisconsin-like run for the Illini over the next 10 years. And given the fertile recruiting ground in Illinois, there's an outside chance at that aforementioned "consistently elite level".

Zook has to prove he can coach at a consistent level though. Wisconsin and Iowa have never dominated the recruiting rankings, but Wisconsin has been a consistently good team for the past decade because of good coaching and sticking to a system. And Iowa's penchant for having good lines has made them a good team, although they have slipped in recent years.

Quite honestly, I was fucking shocked with Zook's gameplan against us this year. Personally though, I think that without a feature back like Mendenhall (Dependent on no one stepping up here) that Illinois will struggle next year. 7-6 or 8-5 wouldn't surprise me. At a school like Illinois which doesn't have the name recognition, you don't replace a player like Rashard Mendenhall very easily.

I think one reason they had success this year was due to this being the worst year for the Big Ten in quite some time. With Penn State instituting a spread offense (And with their rough offense and defense full of felons) they will be much improved with Clark at the helm, as I expect Wisconsin to benefit with a deep backfield and a good defense. Not to mention Iowa returns most their weapons sans running back, and Michigan State appears to be on the up and up.

The most important thing for Illinois is to lock down their state. Every national power has lockdown essentially on their state, except for a few players that matriculate elsewhere. As evidenced in the past years, Illinois is a very good recruiting state. If Zook can lock that down they will be consistently a very good team, coupled with OOS recruits.