Illinois Fighting Illini (you'll see)

[OrangeRoughy]

48% tells me he's not some god-like QB everyone on here makes him out to be. Most of his passes are short dumpoffs, real hard to complete.

Ah, I see you're familiar with Juice Williams' early work. Let me tell you a little story....

Over the first 8 games this past season, Juice wasn't very good. He was good with his feet, but not with his arm. In the 3rd quarter of the 9th game against Ball State, he was really struggling. 4-12 for 45 yards so far that game, he throws a pick-6, allowing Ball State back in the game. After that, something clicked. He went 3-3 for 100 yards the rest of the game, allowing us to hold on for a way-too-close 28-17 victory. Here's his stats before and after that pick 6:

First 8 games: 84-151 (55.6%) for 786 yards with 6 TDs and 8 INTs. That's 98 yards per game.

The last 4 games: 62-101 (61.3%) for 812 yards with 7 TDs and 4 INTs. That's 203 yards per game, and two of those games were against the #1 defense (Ohio State) and the #2 defense (USC).

So yeah, early in the season it was mostly dump-offs and curls. But if you watched any of the last 4 Illini games, you'd see that our passing game began to finally click.

I firmly believe that DickRod would give WVU half their money back to have 2-year starter Juice Williams running his offense instead of never-thrown-a-pass Steven Threet.

 

[BB73]

I firmly believe that DickRod would give WVU half their money back to have 2-year starter Juice Williams running his offense instead of never-thrown-a-pass Steven Threet.

He'd probably sign a contract for that, and then make somebody sue him before they got the money.

As you pointed out, the loss of Mendenhall is significant; which in my mind raises some doubts as to whether Juice can be above a 60% completion rate in 2008. With his running ability, he doesn't need to get much above that to be effective; but if he's closer to 50% the offense will have some rough days.

 

[OrangeRoughy]

As you pointed out, the loss of Mendenhall is significant; which in my mind raises some doubts as to whether Juice can be above a 60% completion rate in 2008. With his running ability, he doesn't need to get much above that to be effective; but if he's closer to 50% the offense will have some rough days.

Well put. A lot of next season (and my 2009 hopes, to be honest) hinges on one of the tailbacks stepping forward. I liked what I saw from Dufrene and Pollard last year (Pollard is a scatback who had 92 yards against Syracuse before getting injured against Indiana and missing the rest of the season), and I have high hopes for Jason Ford (Lemming has him top-100 nationally) and Mikel Leshoure (local 3-star product), but it sure would have been nice to pry Jamie Harper away from Clemson. That would have made me feel a lot better.

The point remains, though. Juice's passing numbers will go as our running attack goes. Because of our rushing attack last season, Juice looked out at single coverage all the time last year. If we can't sustain our running game, he's gonna see a lot more DBs through his visor. I'm hoping a healthy Arrelious Benn will help, as well as the return of Chris James (#2 receiver that missed 2007 with an injury). Splitting 4-wide with Benn, James, Jeff Cumberland, and one of the freshmen (Scott, Jenkins, or Sykes) will be a huge improvement over the last few seasons. Heck, it's an improvement over our last 118 seasons.

 

[Sportsbuck28]

48% tells me he's not some god-like QB everyone on here makes him out to be. Most of his passes are short dumpoffs, real hard to complete.

Do you not notice the 20% difference in completion percentage from freshman to sophomore year? That's a rapdily improving QB who will benefit from more experienced receivers this year as well.

 

[matcar]

A smaller Michael Robinson? Robinson is 6'1" and listed as between 225 and 228 pounds. He was listed at 6'2", 217 at PSU.

Juice is listed at 6'2", and between 220 and 223 pounds, so they're basically the same in stature. Juice is a solidly built guy at QB.

Really...wow, I had no idea Juice was that size. He doesn't look, to my eyes, to be as built as Robinson was...but I'm obviously wrong as the numbers don't lie.

Even moreso the comparison.

 

[OregonBuckeye]

Really...wow, I had no idea Juice was that size. He doesn't look, to my eyes, to be as built as Robinson was...but I'm obviously wrong as the numbers don't lie.

Even moreso the comparison.

Really? I always thought Juice looked more like a runningback than a quarterback.

 

[jwinslow]

 

[OrangeRoughy]

Gives new meaning to the phrase "strong armed quarterback", doesn't he?

 

[ThaKid101]

Your first mistake was pulling a quote from the Illinois Scout board, what with their text message-speak and their free-flowing Koolaid (there isn't a 2009 prospect we've offered that isn't a "5-star lock when Rivals and Scout update their rankings"). Your second mistake was dismissing it completely.

While we're not "every position U" as the child suggests, we have seen some fantastic recruiting at WR and DL. I don't think it's outlandish at all to say that we'll have 3 WRs and 3 DLs drafted in the next 4 years. And that's after 2 wide receivers and zero defensive linemen drafted in the last 10 years. You're about to see a significant improvement. Here's the statistics:

Illinois wide receivers the day Ron Zook took over:
Jody Ellis (**)
Frank Lenti (**)
Dejuan Warren (***)
Kyle Hudson (**)
Franklin Payne (***)
Jacob Willis (walk-on)

Wide Receivers Ron Zook has recruited:
Arrelious Benn (*****)
Jarred Fayson (*****)
Jeff Cumberland (****)
Chris James (****)
Marques Wilkins (****)
Cordale Scott (****)
A.J. Jenkins (****)

Illinois defensive linemen on the day Ron Zook took over:
Charles Myles (**)
Ryan Matha (**)
Josh Norris (**)
Adam Wilk (**)
Xavier Fulton (***)
Derek Walker (**)
David Lindquist (**)
Chris Norwell (***)

Defensive linemen Ron Zook has recruited:
Doug Pilcher (***)
Jerry Brown (***)
Josh Brent (****)
Martez Wilson (*****) (now at OLB)
Darrell Ballew (***)
D'Angelo McCray (****)
Corey Liuget (****)
Reggie Ellis (****)

Koolaid aside, this will not be your father's Illinois team in a few years.

Well that was me who made that comment. I'm FAR from a bandwagon fan to whatever OSU fan asked that...I'm a young Illini fan who has been a fan since before I got to HS. I'm hoping to 1 day go to Illinois. But anyway...

I said it and I meant it. All you have to do is look at my track record since I've been on these message boards (Mainly the Illinois scout board). It speaks for itself. You could talk about Scout and it's "text message speak" and endless free flowing kool aid all you want, but for a period (Talking about the '07 class with Benn, Wilson, etc.) you couldn't get any more exclusive with the stuff I put on there.

I told everybody before anybody knew Martez Wilson was going to Illinois. Even when he "blew up" and people said Illinois had no shot after USC and others offered, I let people know. I told them on NLOID '06 that Illinois would get both Benn and Nate Bussey in the '07 class. People laughed 'cause Benn was a national recruit and Illinois was really in the stinker. I hit on everything I said that year except that Jack Cornell was going to Illinois (Originally picked MSU) and that was just a gut feeling. Everything Juice told me was on the money when we were in contact. It was well known that I was talking/messaging with him and '06 WR Chris "CJ" James.

Enough about that though I really don't have to explain 'cause any Illinois fan (And a lot of others) know what it is. I think you're an example of the "old" Illini fan Roughy. I've read some of your posts and you seem to kind of back down to OSU fans and such who don't think Illinois can become anything more than a 2nd tier B10 school. You try to defend Illinois and stuff, but it seems like you're backing down a little often. I guess being "realistic" as you'd probably put it. But I'm telling you, watch how it takes off. I was being dead serious when I made those comments. Illinois is about to become very Miami-esque (Earlier this decade) when talking about pro prospects. You can laugh all you want, but watch exactly what I'm talking about. I was trying to tell people all before last year about last year's team. How good they will be. How certain freshmen will play better than their ranking, etc. And it happened.

I will be willing to bet Illinois has more than 3 DL's and WR's drafted in the next few years...off the top of my head, Benn, Cumberland, Fayson, AJ Jenkins, maybe even Joe Morgan (If he gets it together there is no doubt), Cordale Scott. That doesn't even include the likes of Mike Hooman (NFL player for sure), London Davis (GREAT upside), Hubie Graham (Really good upside), etc. Plus depending on Brian Gamble, you can add him the NFL list if it he stays at WR (All B10 type) or goes back to S (Where I think he is AA type).

Off the top of my head from the DL, Josh Brent (1st rounder when he comes out after his junior year, bank it), Will Davis (Guy is up to 260+ pounds and still running a 4.6 as well as benching 225 20 times 3 times daily...plus a 38 inch vert), Jerry Brown (Was my pick to click last year but he was young so he gets a pass...my pick again this year), D'Angelo McCray (Wait 'til you see him), Whitney Mercilus (Will Davis part 2 but faster and bigger at the same stage), Corey Liuget. That doesn't even include guys like Reggie Ellis (Good upside), Glenn Foster (Another potential AA but might take a lot of time 'cause he is VERY VERY raw), Daryle Ballew, Sirod Williams (Senior this upcoming year but just thought I would throw him in), Antonio James, Ugo U (BIG upside), etc. who will all at the least be very solid. And all this doesn't even include the DB's (Disgusting amounts of athletes coming in and already there led by future 1st rounder Vontae Davis), some of the LB's (Mainly Martez Wilson...he is an ANIMAL but Britt Miller, Rodney Pittman, and especially Ian Thomas-watch out for him-are all the main LB's...which is probably the only spot that isn't "there" yet) and the OL (If you thought this year was something, just wait until you see some of these other guys)

So I'm going to say it on here for those who are laughing. ILLINOIS IS ABOUT TO WIN THE B10 NEXT YEAR WITH A SHOT AT THE NC. I don't think they'll go to the NC but I do think BCS. '09 is where I have them winning it. I'm dead serious. Orange, this is not your old Illini squad. This team has big, fast, aggressive, smart, and disciplined long twitch athletes who can run with anybody as well as out-tough them. The recruiting ratings don't affect this (BTW, if you like all the glitz and glam of recruiting ratings, this is your year), but Illinois has brought in classes just as good as any in the B10 and among the best in the nation since Zook has been here. Yeah yeah I know they've been in the top 25, but I'm talking top 10 on the field performance. This is probably the best talent evaluating staff in the B10. For every Martez Wilson or Arrelious Benn they've brought in, they've brought in a Vontae Davis or Jon Asamoah or Will Davis. My point is this, yeah the Corey Liuget's, etc. are great, but there are players who could be just as good if not better with players like Whitney Mercilus, Ugo U, etc.

That's what sets them apart from others...if you think they've done something in the past though, wait 'til the future as I said. This '08 class is going to be special and there are more than a few high NFL drafts picks waiting to happen on it. I won't go through it as far as I can 'cause this is a Buckeye board (I already went really far) but read the Illinois boards if you want to know what I think as far as Illinois in the future (A lot of you probably are already seeing as though you've linked a post from me). I'm sure many will laugh but just watch...I'll be back a few times (A lot really) between now and the season and I'll DEFINITELY be back when the season is going on...

EDIT: I know that was a REALLY long post but just thought I would release all my thoughts from reading through this thread on my 1st post...

 

[ThaKid101]

BTW Juice is 6'2 and "down" to 228 now from 230+.

 

[Sportsbuck28]

^ Damn bro, lay off the cool aid there.

First, no way in hell Illinois ever becomes Miami-esque in terms of putting out pro prospects.

Second, that's a very BIG reach in terms of guys drafted.

Third, let me stop laughing long enough at you thinking they'll win the Big Ten in '08 and the NC in '09 to type a response.

Fourth, no way in fucking hell is Zook's staff the best talent evaluating staff in the Big Ten. Tress has you guys beat by a long shot, and it's a very long shot.

 

[ThaKid101]

^ Damn bro, lay off the cool aid there.

First, no way in hell Illinois ever becomes Miami-esque in terms of putting out pro prospects.

Second, that's a very BIG reach in terms of guys drafted.

Third, let me stop laughing long enough at you thinking they'll win the Big Ten in '08 and the NC in '09 to type a response.

Fourth, no way in fucking hell is Zook's staff the best talent evaluating staff in the Big Ten. Tress has you guys beat by a long shot, and it's a very long shot.

Laugh away. Laugh all you want. That's your opinion. You're a homer for your team as well as I am for mine so I wouldn't expect you to agree. Just stating my (very strong) opinions. We'll see how things start to unfold when the season starts and over the next few years. I see a lot of threads here (Including this one when Zook obviously was with Florida 1st) stay around. So we'll just come back in a few years and see. A lot of people are going to be looking really stupid...

 

[sandgk]

ThaKid101 - There's this dude called BuckCrazy! on Bucknuts.com - THE Independent Ohio State Sports Site that you might want to meet.

Seems like you are both cut from the same kind of cloth.

Here have a horn and go toot it somewhere - in the street would be good - and don't worry about all that traffic :tongue2:

 

[mross34]

Well that was me who made that comment. I'm FAR from a bandwagon fan to whatever OSU fan asked that...I'm a young Illini fan who has been a fan since before I got to HS. I'm hoping to 1 day go to Illinois. But anyway...

I said it and I meant it. All you have to do is look at my track record since I've been on these message boards (Mainly the Illinois scout board). It speaks for itself. You could talk about Scout and it's "text message speak" and endless free flowing kool aid all you want, but for a period (Talking about the '07 class with Benn, Wilson, etc.) you couldn't get any more exclusive with the stuff I put on there.

You can cite your connections to players and inside recruiting information all you want, but it speaks nothing to your ability to project what kind of talent will make it to the NFL. I don't think anyone here thinks Illinois can't be a top tier Big 10 team and win multiple Big 10 titles in the next decade. Where you lose your credibility is in claiming that Illinois will be come the "(Insert position here) U" of several different positions. It takes years and years of producing top notch talent into the NFL at a particular position and it's not a particularly easy reputation to come by. As far as being on par with Miami in terms of NFL talent? Good luck. The Miami teams of the late-90s and early-00s produced more first round NFL talent than any team in history. In terms of winning the Big 10? Players like J Leman and Rashard Mendenhall aren't a dime a dozen, so don't be surprised if your team takes a step back this year. I have more beef than that with your post, but I'll leave it at that cause I can already see your views are too extreme and it will do no good to argue with you. Tone it down and you might actually stir up some good conversation.

 

[ThaKid101]

And just to let people know I don't think every single 1 of them will go to the NFL. On some others I was just naming them 'cause they're solid players who either are or will be solid or very solid contributors for Illinois in their time, but I don't know about the NFL. For example, I think Antonio James will play in the NFL, but I don't think he'll be drafted as of right now. What I do know is he is a solid contributor and has been since his freshman year (He'll be a junior this season).

He also has potential to be better than Derek Walker before he leaves and Derek Walker is a late round type of draft pick (5th, 6th, 7th) right now for next year's draft (This according to some NFL types). But as of right now I don't see James being drafted but I do see him competing in training camp for a spot. That's just an example of what I was talking about. I don't think every player I named will be drafted, FWIW. But I do think a lot of them will see some sort of time in an NFL camp if they aren't drafted.