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If Andy Reid called for the punt team, and TO refused to leave the field...

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StooGrimson said:
Nice reading comprehension. If you had read my post you would have known that I assume nothing about Manning or any other celebrities, good or bad. I can think of thousands of better uses for my time than assuming Peyton Manning is a good guy and T.O. is a prick. Public personas rarely ever match reality (positively or negatively) so why bother? I don't know them, so why should I care if they're genuinely an ass or pretty decent?
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How did I know you would say that.

First of all, let's just be clear. Assuming Peyton Manning is or isn't a dick takes about 1 second of your precious time (which apparently is better served being an ass on the internet?).

Secondly, What you say and what you do are 2 different things. You say you don't assume either way......yet when I say Manning isn't a dick and TO is, that wasn't a good enough reason for you. I point out that TO is a known dickhead, while Peyton isn't, and you come up with your mini-rant on how people always assume public perception of celebrities is reality.

If you don't want to "waste" your precious time assuming one way or the other over Manning, then why even bring that up?
 
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StooGrimson said:
Nice reading comprehension. If you had read my post you would have known that I assume nothing about Manning or any other celebrities, good or bad. I can think of thousands of better uses for my time than assuming Peyton Manning is a good guy and T.O. is a prick. Public personas rarely ever match reality (positively or negatively) so why bother? I don't know them, so why should I care if they're genuinely an ass or pretty decent?
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so let me get this straight... we're supposed to give TO the benefit of the doubt (probably as some martyr of the obsessed media) that he could be a decent guy, and also refuse to treat Peyton as a good guy b/c we don't know how nice he is to his teammates in the lockerroom?

1) Respect does not require being a nice guy. There are a lot of athletes who command respect from their teammates and fans even tho they can be short-fused in the lockerroom.

2) TO does not appear good in public or on his team. Regardless of whether it was the media egging him on or not, the guy has left his teammates and coaches out to dry an unbelievable amount of times. That alone creates a huge distinction between TO and Peyton.

3) You must have zero opinions on all athletes, since you have not had the time or resources to conduct a 2 year case study on their behavior behind the scenes.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
If you've seen any amount of Dungy's interviews, you'd know he'd have made it known that Manning overrode his call if indeed that's what happened, and would have complimented Manning for it.
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actually if a coach admits that a player disobeyed his instructions, it means the coach is no longer the coach anymore.

Dungy is classy enough that he would lie to protect Manning. He also lies because he knows that calling for a punt in that situation was a horrible move.

Another indication that Dungy is a piss poor big game coach who should be fired.
 
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tibor75 said:
actually if a coach admits that a player disobeyed his instructions, it means the coach is no longer the coach anymore.
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So when Reid disciplined Owens for his actions which were against Reid's wishes, that would mean that Owens disobeyed Reid and thus Reid should be fired. :roll1:

If a player disobeys the coach and the coach does nothing, then the coach is no longer in charge. If the coach takes decisive action, then the coach is still in charge and could be more in charge depending on the action taken.
 
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Ugh where to begin...

BuckeyeNation27 said:
Secondly, What you say and what you do are 2 different things. You say you don't assume either way......yet when I say Manning isn't a dick and TO is, that wasn't a good enough reason for you. I point out that TO is a known dickhead, while Peyton isn't, and you come up with your mini-rant on how people always assume public perception of celebrities is reality.

If you don't want to "waste" your precious time assuming one way or the other over Manning, then why even bring that up?
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All I did was point out that assuming Manning isn't as big an ass as T.O. is dumb b/c celebrities are rarely what they portray themselves to be. Maybe you're right...but it's just as likely you're 100% wrong. I just think it's amusing that some folks are still willing to buy into athletes' acts over and over whether they're good or bad.

Well then why compare him to a known full-time asswipe like Owens?
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All I said was, "Maybe Manning is a nice guy, but it's quite possible he's an even bigger ass than T.O." Sounds like your beef should be taken elsewhere.

And then...

so let me get this straight... we're supposed to give TO the benefit of the doubt (probably as some martyr of the obsessed media) that he could be a decent guy, and also refuse to treat Peyton as a good guy b/c we don't know how nice he is to his teammates in the lockerroom?
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I never said give him the benefit of the doubt. I said that most of the time the public image of a celebrity differs from reality. Maybe T.O. is the ass that we see; maybe he isn't. Neither matter to me. The reality is that he's just a football player who screwed himself and his team with his stupid public antics. That doesn't affect my life in any way, so I could care less about him. Manning may be both classy in public and private, but I could care less. He's just a football player that has no affect on my life.

You must have zero opinions on all athletes, since you have not had the time or resources to conduct a 2 year case study on their behavior behind the scenes.
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That's actually pretty accurate. I pretty much reserve my opinions to what I see on the field. That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions, but you're pretty right. I'm about as objective and fair as you can get.
 
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All I did was point out that assuming Manning isn't as big an ass as T.O. is dumb b/c celebrities are rarely what they portray themselves to be. Maybe you're right...but it's just as likely you're 100% wrong. I just think it's amusing that some folks are still willing to buy into athletes' acts over and over whether they're good or bad.
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You do realize it takes more effort on your part to do this then to just say "TO is a total dick, Manning isn't or hasn't proven to be one yet". Instead you knock down my explaination as to why nobody gives a shit if Manning does something and gets praised while TO in the same situation would get hammered. Guess what Einstein. The question was asked, "Why does Manning get away with this where TO wouldn't?" The answer is simple. Manning hasn't been the cancer that TO has been, so he has earned the right to do something.

What is so hard to understand about that?
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
So when Reid disciplined Owens for his actions which were against Reid's wishes, that would mean that Owens disobeyed Reid and thus Reid should be fired. :roll1:

If a player disobeys the coach and the coach does nothing, then the coach is no longer in charge. If the coach takes decisive action, then the coach is still in charge and could be more in charge depending on the action taken.
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actually what I meant was when a player disobeys a coach and there are no consequences and the coach acts like he doesn't care, he isn't the coach anymore.
 
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tibor75 said:
actually what I meant was when a player disobeys a coach and there are no consequences and the coach acts like he doesn't care, he isn't the coach anymore.
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fortunately you understand the truth better than the colts organization, and also have a better grasp on how to be a gameday coach. I have some contacts in indy, I'll give them your screenname :lol:
 
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Weird, I thought that Donovan was the QB of the Eagles. If he'd gone for it on fourth and two, like Manning did, then I think Reid and the media would've had the same response. If it were T.O., then Reid should've told him to get down there and tackle the punt returner, because if he lines up at receiver with the punt team on the field, then he gets to be the gunner.
 
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BuckeyeNation27 said:
You do realize it takes more effort on your part to do this then to just say "TO is a total dick, Manning isn't or hasn't proven to be one yet". Instead you knock down my explaination as to why nobody gives a shit if Manning does something and gets praised while TO in the same situation would get hammered. Guess what Einstein. The question was asked, "Why does Manning get away with this where TO wouldn't?" The answer is simple. Manning hasn't been the cancer that TO has been, so he has earned the right to do something.

What is so hard to understand about that?
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Maybe you've just misunderstood me then. I'm not denying that T.O. was a cancer. He public antics ensured that all of America could see how divisive he was in the locker room. Most situations are not like his though. More often than not, conflicts between players and coaches on the field or in the locker room are never made public. If something slips out (such as the rumors we're hearing in Cincy about Chad Johnson) they're almost always explained away quickly to give the appearance of a cohesive unit. Manning blasted his O-Line after the game on Sunday, so it's entirely possible that he may be a complete ass as well and a divisive force in the locker room. Then again, maybe it was just an error on his part and his recent backing away from his comments is genuine. Considering I don't spend any time hanging with the Colts and he and the team keep their inner workings private, I'm not going to assume either way.
 
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well that's peachy, but still not relevant to the thread. Peyton is not known as a tool, and until that time he has no business being compared to someone who has been exalted as the ultimate cancer in pro sports.

TO has no business being compared to Peyton. Not as a QB vs WR on a playcall issue. Not as a teammate. Not as an interviewed player.

Peyton could have denied his coach's playcall and that would still be the case. That being said, I still have yet to see any evidence that this is a fact, and is not just conveniently proven by tibor's eyesight during the game.
 
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There are only to positions on the offense that should be able to tell the coach to go for a first down; QB, and RB. If I'm the the coach and my QB (if I respect him as much as Dungy says he respects Manning) tells me to go for it I listen. Also if I'm in 4th and 1 and someone like Jerome Bettis tells me "Coach give me the ball, I got this" I'll probably listen to him.
From years of being on the sidelines of football games I think it is entirely possible that Dungy is telling the truth about planning to go for it all along. Every team has a coach in charge of getting the special teams ready to go if needed. Seeing it was 4th down that coach may have sent the punt team out on the field even though Dungy wanted to go for it. They tell Manning that they are going for it through his headset and he motions for the punt team to get off the field.
What would this place be without the Tibor family to stir the pot?
 
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