I am not all in

[LordJeffBuck]

When you recruit kids, you never really know what you're getting until the players arrive on campus. You can do as much research and due diligence as you want, but you never know what you have until you see it up close and personal for an extended period of time.

I suspect that a good head coach can judge any given player's talent in just a few weeks, and can determine whether the kid (1) can play now, (2) could play down the road with proper coaching and development, or (3) will be a habitual bench warmer.

I also suspect that a good head coach can judge any given player's character in just a few weeks, and can determine whether the kid (1) is a good person now, (2) could be a good person down the road with proper guidance, or (3) will be a habitual trouble maker.

Tressel obviously has some difficulty identifying and addressing the habitual trouble makers. Is this because he is too trusting and a bit naive? Does Tressel really believe that he can "reach" every kid who plays for him? Or is Tressel as Machiavellian as everybody else in the cutthroat business of college football? Is he willing to exercise a bit more patience (and a bit less discretion) when a superstar is involved in some improper activity?

I could make arguments for either side, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, thrice is a pattern ... I really doubt that Tressel - regardless of whatever else he does for the program - would be able to survive a fourth encounter with the NCAA.

I understand that Ohio State's philosophy in dealing with the NCAA is different from most programs - Ohio State self-reports everything. I have no doubts that those damning emails would have "disappeared" at many other schools, maybe most others. But that simply doesn't happen at Ohio State, not now. Given Ohio State's self-imposed rigorous compliance, how often can Tressel afford to take a risk on a player with questionable character, even if the kid is a five-star prospect? And how long can Tressel afford keep a kid on campus after that kid displays character flaws of the type that might lead to yet another NCAA inquiry?

Just a thought.... As much as some of us like to rip the SEC in general and Florida in particular, Urban Meyer did cut loose Cam Newton, Heisman Trophy winner and entertainment icon. What would Tressel have done with Newton, given the same set of facts? Undoubtedly, Tressel would have seen Newton's talent right away, but how would he have perceived Newton's character flaws?

 

[matcar]

I will just add my 2 pennies that I hope Woof and Gator and Smoov and the fellas from other places stay here now...hell we can use an outside perspective more than ever right now probably.

Ditto. Those guys are all good and I enjoy their contribution greatly. And I agree with BKB that Gator is a troll in that he lives under a bridge and is VERY ugly.

 

[Diego-Bucks]

Don't know why, usually all things Ohio State related I worry, fret or am concerned over.

This is not one of them. On the scale of magnitude of where and what kinds of violations this is, I just don't really think Tressel's lying/withholding the truth or whatever bothers me.

If a longer suspension is warranted then so be it. But the NCAA rules and bylaws for compliance are amazingly difficult to understand for me. I support Tressel and Ohio State, but within the context of the entire violation and NCAA "crime", I still don't see how any of it is a big deal.

Selling property was the violation. Tressel learned about it and sat on it. He is suspended and fined, the players are suspended. The punishments exist and they aren't inherently "light" punishments. Further, this all stems from the violation of selling stuff, which has never grabbed my attention as an "OMG, I can't believe the unethical acts of these human beings", which I think leads me to not care about JT sitting on the e-mail exchange.

In the scheme of, Tressel is hyper-competitive and wanted to succeed at all costs, then maybe there is a point to be made about some hypocritical behavior. But the root issue that my mind fails to comprehend and thus fails to see this as a big deal is: selling property=bad.

None of it seems to really come across as inherently unethical behavior, but I'm willing to listen to see what people say about it.

Like when a 13-year old is eligible to play Little League through some birth certificate shit and the coach goes along with it. Who the hell cares? Does it take away from the quality of the competition? What harm has any of this caused to NCAA College Football? Were they ineligible? Looks that way, but they are going to end of being punished for it regardless, its just in 2011 as opposed to 2010 or 2009.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Like when a 13-year old is eligible to play Little League through some birth certificate shit and the coach goes along with it. Who the hell cares? Does it take away from the quality of the competition?

 

[jwinslow]

Ditto. Those guys are all good and I enjoy their contribution greatly. And I agree with BKB that Gator is a troll in that he lives under a bridge and is VERY ugly.

thirded. it is now a meme.

 

[Diego-Bucks]

... Given Ohio State's self-imposed rigorous compliance, how often can Tressel afford to take a risk on a player with questionable character, even if the kid is a five-star prospect? And how long can Tressel afford keep a kid on campus after that kid displays character flaws of the type that might lead to yet another NCAA inquiry?...

I just have to ask, where and how do you identify character flaws? The Tat-5 group doesn't seem like they've committed any egregious violations of social norms or laws. Do they have maturity issues, yes, but that will exist at every institution.

The issues of character flaws that I don't see a lot of at Ohio State are criminal issues like DUI's, violent crimes, robbery. Those I would be concerned with.

Unless you want to recruit by posing crazy hypothetical NCAA compliance questions to high-school kids, how do you identify the type of character traits that would help distinguish from one kid to the other? I think that Tressel's body of work speaks volumes of his capability of judging character, but you are probably correct in that, once he trusts the kid and they are in the "Tressel circle" he doesn't ever kick them out which can come back to bite him in the ass.

 

[jlb1705]

That always cracks me up. #22 had to stand back there the whole time and smell butt on national TV.

 

[BuckNut65]

W

I could make arguments for either side, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, thrice is a pattern ... I really doubt that Tressel - regardless of whatever else he does for the program - would be able to survive a fourth encounter with the NCAA.

There is a pattern here....all the way back to his days at YSU. When it comes to players that are critical components to the success of the team he has the tendency to look the other way or use these type of indiscretions as "teachable moments". At least that was what I always thought until now.

Regardless of the reason as to why he did it, he should be held to a higher standard. Isn't that what excellence is all about. He let himself down, he let his team down and he let the University down.

Football will go on and I'll be either at the game or sitting in front of the tube next fall catching every Buckeye game. That will never change, however my perspective on this coach has and that was something that I wouldn't have thought possible.

He is human like the rest of us and is entitled to make mistakes, but I never thought I would be questioning the honesty or integrity of this man.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

I just have to ask, where and how do you identify character flaws? The Tat-5 group doesn't seem like they've committed any egregious violations of social norms or laws. Do they have maturity issues, yes, but that will exist at every institution.

The issues of character flaws that I don't see a lot of at Ohio State are criminal issues like DUI's, violent crimes, robbery. Those I would be concerned with.

In the world of the NCAA, the "entitlement mentality" can be more detrimental to a program than overt criminality.

 

[Jake]

As an alum, I am extremely disappointed and [censored]ed. This is a huge miss and it is inexcusable. I expect the University, the Athletic Dept and the Head Coach to operate at the highest standard. This business of "body of work" and "compared to other schools" sound like excuses to me - no matter how clean my slate is as an individual, there are some principles and standards that *must* be inviolable. This issue, in my opinion, is one of those... It's a harsh stance, perhaps too harsh, but as an alum, that's where my head goes.

Me too. I wear my alma mater on my sleeve. It goes beyond the football team. I want answers that I'm sure I'll never get, but as I said elsewhere I hope the Trustees meet with Gee, Smith and Tressel individually and ask tough questions. The explanations I'm reading/hearing from tOSU do not jive with the evidence that has been produced to date.

 

[Diego-Bucks]

In the world of the NCAA, the "entitlement mentality" can be more detrimental to a program than overt criminality.

In the world of the NCAA yes. But in reality, this doesn't damper my view of Tressel as a person, nor of the players involved in the compliance issue. I love that in the NCAA, selling a jersey is treated as more dire and offending than committing a crime of violence, like assault or threatening the life of another.

But I won't let NCAA glasses impact my view of the Tressel as man and coach.

 

[scooter1369]

Someone on the radio this morning brought the game where the players' shoes (including Pryor's) were stolen before a game. I'm thinking they weren't stolen at all now and I am simply sick to my stomach over this.

 

[DaveyBoy]

In the world of the NCAA yes. But in reality, this doesn't damper my view of Tressel as a person, nor of the players involved in the compliance issue. I love that in the NCAA, selling a jersey is treated as more dire and offending than committing a crime of violence, like assault or threatening the life of another.

But I won't let NCAA glasses impact my view of the Tressel as man and coach.

you don't view this the same way I do

it's not that the memoribilia issue is being treated as it's so harsh...it's that Tressel had multiple opportunities and several months to come clean but chose not to do that. The transgression he was covering up is incidental. The cover-up is the problem.

this debacle is giving the SEC the cover they need to divert attention away from the TRUE transgressors...it's so damned frustrating

 

[LordJeffBuck]

I love that in the NCAA, selling a jersey is treated as more dire and offending than committing a crime of violence, like assault or threatening the life of another.

But those are the rules.

And the head coach must know the rules, abide by the rules, enforce the rules, and deal effectively with players who don't know/won't follow the rules.

Right now, there is a disconnect between rules and compliance.

 

[JXC]

Protecting a source? Protecting the players? After reading the emails and the statement. That seems like crap. Nowhere in the first email did this attorney say to keep the email confidential. And even if he did, why would you? The only reason I can think of is because you didn't want the players to get in trouble. And that's bogus. The broke the rules, he knew it in April...obviously he thought he and his players were above the rules. What a joke. And above all, even if you really wanted to keep it all confidential, then why in the world not come forward in mid December? And if a reason for the players playing in the Sugar Bowl was that nobody at OSU knew about all of this until mid-December, which it was, then how did Tressel live with that lie. Even during the game? This sours those players playing even more. Kids make mistakes, and I was able to get over it. But this is more than a mistake. Tressel lied, lied some more, and then lied some more after that. He lied to the NCAA. He lied to OSU fans. It's a joke.

We deserve better at Ohio State. Jim Tressel has done a lot of good for the community and the football team. But does that mean we overlook something like this? I don't want a liar as a coach. Tressel getting 2 games makes it seems like he is bigger than Ohio State football. I am an Ohio State football fan. I always will be. But I am no longer a Jim Tressel fan. Sorry coach...I'm off the bandwagon. That first email he got blew my mind away. If I see that email, the first thing I am doing is going to the compliace office and the head of the University.

I hope we beat Michigan, win the Big Ten, and win the national championship next year. But I am hoping this happens for the fans, and the university, and for all the players who had nothing to do with this. I do not wish this for Jim Tressel. This is more than a black eye. And Ohio State needs to start seperating itself from this sort of classlessness RIGHT NOW.

Is the media out for us? No. Ohio State is giving them ammo. Lots of it. Where does it end?