I am not all in

[Jaxbuck]

I read them all, and each one is way too simplistic to be accurate in any meaningful way.

This whole situation has become laughable to me. We humans seem to need to reduce life occurrences to fit within a limited number of cliches. Life occurrences are not, however, cliches.

(Edit) Don't mean to imply, Nate, that your post was laughable, nor that your ideas were ill-conceived. They serve as a good basis for thought and discussion. I just don't agree with your premise.

Ok I just have to get this off my chest.

Yesterday you were saying anyone who would dare use the word "lying" as to what was going on was being incredibly naive. Turns out someone was indeed lying or perhaps chose not to tell the truth.

Now today you find the whole situation laughable and want to remind us poor simple humans that we lack the mental firepower to see situations outside of a few predetermined constructs or "cliches" inferring that you of course have the required superior intellect to think outside of the cliches that get the rest of us poor dumb bastards through our dreary little lives.

Maybe its just me but I find that incredibly condescending and arrogant. For the most part I think BP members have done a fabulous job of expressing varied opinions in a respectful and non inflammatory manner but find your posts on the subject to be the exception.

 

[Cincinnatibuck]

I wasn't sure whether to post this in the big thread that started with the Yahoo story, in the 'I stand with JT' thread, or here in the 'Not all in' thread. But we all have to live with our decisions.

JT messed up by not discussing the e-mails he received back in April with tOSU legal counsel. He's guilty of an NCAA violation because of that and deserves to be penalized.

I think there's a significant difference, however, between JT sitting on that information (at least from an NCAA compliance perspective) and guys like Bruce Pearl committing recruiting violations and then lying to the NCAA about it and trying to orchestrate a coverup by getting other coaches to clam up and asking parents of recruits to not be forthcoming to the NCAA. Seeing JT lumped in with guys like that is sickening to me.

I am very intrerested in hearing who (if anyone) that those e-mails were forwarded to. It seemed like they were sent to somebody, the way that Gene Smith broke in before JT could answer that question.

I'd also like to point out the difference between the way that tOSU handled the matter and the way that schools like USC and Auburn have recently dealt with elleged NCAA violations. My understanding is that USC, as a private institution, is not subject to FOIA requests. Under Mike Garrett it was obvious that their approach was to say nothing, not do a lot of digging to find any internal problems, and hope that the damage would be minimized. I believe Auburn has followed a similar approach, and I believe that they'll still get whacked by the NCAA once more information becomes public. But that discussion doesn't belong in this thread.

It's disappointing to have JT guilty of what's classified as a major NCAA violation, and it's tough to see him being lumped in with the coaches who are serial cheaters and self-serving slimeballs.

But I'm proud of the way that tOSU has dealt with these issues.

Saved me for having to type the same thing.

 

[tundra1]

After reading the emails there is no way I can buy the story about Tressel keeping it quiet for the safety of the kids. IMO he used that as an excuse to keep a couple of players he knew damn good and well should have been ineligible, eligible at the start of what was a NC contending season.

I also think the 2 game suspension by OSU is no better than Tennessee backing Bruce Pearl. Tressel should have gotten a years suspension if not removed from his post.

I know from PM's and feedback that I'm not alone so I thought I'd provide a thread for those of the dissenting opinion to go without starting any holy wars on the site.

First, Jax, thanks for starting this thread.

Second, I was one of the people during the press conference that thought he was really trying to protect the kids. Then I read the e-mails, which did not at first ask for confidentiality, did not appear to come from a source that was an active part of the federal investigation, and seemed to lay out a lot of details of the tattoo situation.

I was trying to justify it in my head (because I do admire what Tressel has done) by saying that Tressel must get lots of e-mails, not all of which he would take seriously...then I saw he asked this source weeks later (the one where he mentioned "collateral").

Then I tried to justify it by saying he was taking one for the team. However, I have to believe that the NCAA and/or the Feds already know who Tressel's source is. I actually believe that Yahoo Sports knows who it is too, even if they didn't reveal it. If that person, who appears to be an attorney, broke attorney-client privilege, then I believe that he/she will be punished--and the general public won't be made aware either of the punishment or its connection with this case.

So then I'm left with this--I think Tressel made a mistake in the way he handled this case. I'm not bashing him--we all make mistakes. IMO, he made one here.

 

[OmahaBeef]

Anyone who thought that Tressel was anything close to being perfect needs to realize that everyone makes mistakes. If I had to bet, I'd say this is not the first time that Tressel has done something like this and that these kinds of things happen frequently in college football. We only know about any of this because the players happened to be selling their stuff to the wrong guy.

Tressel made a mistake. I would have been happier if he had just apologized for the mistake.

 

[BigWoof31]

Considering the fact that you are not an OSU fan, your frequency of posts on this topic is starting to morph into troll-like behavior.

One of the reasons I'll be taking a short break from BP until the fog lifts a little bit.

Prior to the Sugar Bowl, I contributed to the Gold Pants/Tattoo/Suspension threads because I experience similar reactions when AJ Green sold his jersey for money. This is a bit different, there is a general sense that this is a "Family" issue.

I'll be around to get snarky once the NFL draft kicks in and should my Dawgs make the NCAA tourney, I'll hover over those threads too. Other than that - I'll catch ya'll after the Spring Game.

 

[t_BuckeyeScott]

Disillusionment

Disillusionment - the act of disenchanting, especially to disappoint or embitter by leaving without illusion.

I can think of one famous public figure that I held in higher esteem than Jim Tressel. And there's a decent chance the other guy doesn't count (not public or famous enough).

If this is the not all in thread, then I should probably be a part. I'm not all out either, though. Not to the degree of the strongest segment of this population.

The word disillusioned came to me last night. I'm certainly that. I do wonder if it's the expectations that made this such a dissapointment.

However, I also believe that the expectations were the same JT had for himself.

I wonder if others are disillusioned too.

I wonder if disillusionment is causing this thread to fill.

 

[osugrad21]

One of the reasons I'll be taking a short break from BP until the fog lifts a little bit.

Eh, I think Amy is in the minority here and that has been sufficiently noted by Buckeye fans.

It would be disappointing to see you boys leave just because you are worried about hurting feelings with an outside opinion. None of you have ever approached trolling.

 

[Jaxbuck]

First, Jax, thanks for starting this thread.

Second, I was one of the people during the press conference that thought he was really trying to protect the kids. Then I read the e-mails, which did not at first ask for confidentiality, did not appear to come from a source that was an active part of the federal investigation, and seemed to lay out a lot of details of the tattoo situation.

I was trying to justify it in my head (because I do admire what Tressel has done) by saying that Tressel must get lots of e-mails, not all of which he would take seriously...then I saw he asked this source weeks later (the one where he mentioned "collateral").

Then I tried to justify it by saying he was taking one for the team. However, I have to believe that the NCAA and/or the Feds already know who Tressel's source is. I actually believe that Yahoo Sports knows who it is too, even if they didn't reveal it. If that person, who appears to be an attorney, broke attorney-client privilege, then I believe that he/she will be punished--and the general public won't be made aware either of the punishment or its connection with this case.

So then I'm left with this--I think Tressel made a mistake in the way he handled this case. I'm not bashing him--we all make mistakes. IMO, he made one here.

I'm with you. We are all human and we all make mistakes the problem is this type of mistake leaves the nagging question, at least in my mind, of "what else has he buried?"

That credibility gap underlying a very meticulously crafted public persona really leaves me highly skeptical but to be fair, I'm a skeptic by nature so take it for what its worth.

 

[osugrad21]

Second, I was one of the people during the press conference that thought he was really trying to protect the kids. Then I read the e-mails, which did not at first ask for confidentiality, did not appear to come from a source that was an active part of the federal investigation, and seemed to lay out a lot of details of the tattoo situation.

I was trying to justify it in my head (because I do admire what Tressel has done) by saying that Tressel must get lots of e-mails, not all of which he would take seriously...then I saw he asked this source weeks later (the one where he mentioned "collateral").

Then I tried to justify it by saying he was taking one for the team. However, I have to believe that the NCAA and/or the Feds already know who Tressel's source is. I actually believe that Yahoo Sports knows who it is too, even if they didn't reveal it. If that person, who appears to be an attorney, broke attorney-client privilege, then I believe that he/she will be punished--and the general public won't be made aware either of the punishment or its connection with this case.

So then I'm left with this--I think Tressel made a mistake in the way he handled this case. I'm not bashing him--we all make mistakes. IMO, he made one here.

This is where I'm at...reading the emails changed my approach. I'm just waiting to see where this goes...but disappointed.

JT has done great things for tOSU but this one is tough.

 

[matcar]

Love JT. Not all in. He's still a good man, but the corners cut here sound similar to a lot of things we bash here on this site regularly. I was never one to really beat the drum of being more ethical than other schools much, but whatever I DID do...I'll stop immediately.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

The whole situation makes me feel sick to my stomach. The more I think about it, the more disappointed I am in Coach Tressel and the more peeved I am with the players who put him in this position.

I'll echo that, after reading the e-mails, and much like Gene Smith's "it's a tough economy" excuse, JT's "I wanted to protect the kids" excuse rings rather hollow to me.

And now for some pure speculation on JT's thinking here in today's episode of "Amateur Psychology Hour with B-Katt"....
-JT receives the email
-*sigh* These GD kids are effing killing me.
-Okay, this is clearly a violation by the kids, but it's a victimless one. Nobody really got hurt, they weren't enticed to OSU by benefits, DAMN I really don't want to lose these players for this season....okay...not a huge deal....I'll put an end to it going forward and hope that past transgressions never come up.
-Chat with rule-breakers - "Hey you clowns...I'm hearing that you may have violated NCAA rules last year by selling your shit. Knock it the eff off. Now go forth and sin no more"
-Kids! What's wrong with these kids today? God, I love showtunes. NTTAWWT.

We've all been there. A problem we don't want to deal with. Maybe it's a noise coming from your car that you hope will go away if you ignore it long enough. Or reviewing some of your work and finding out you made a mistake last year and would have to own up to it to your boss....or you could just hope they never notice, right? I know I've been there and said the heck with it...nobody will ever know...I think?........I'll just do it right from now on. It's not really the right decision, but I've made it and I understand why others make it, too.

That being said, I hold JT to a higher standard. He's always seemed to be above this kind of nonsense. It's a kick to the gut to read those e-mails and find out that a man I have on a pedestal makes the same mistakes as the rest of us. Now I know how the parent of a teenager feels the first time they find out their kid has been lying to them. You just don't know what to believe anymore. You can't trust anything they tell you. And you can't trust anything they've told you previously...It's depressing.....(and it's senseless....and that's why.........I like Chinese!)

Two games? Not good enough for me. I don't know if 6 games is fair....or 12....but 2 games is a joke, in my IMO.

In Tress I trust! I think?

 

[localyokel]

Eh, I think Amy is in the minority here and that has been sufficiently noted by Buckeye fans.

It would be disappointing to see you boys leave just because you are worried about hurting feelings with an outside opinion. None of you have ever approached trolling.

What he ^ said.

You guys should stick around.

 

[sepia5]

I wasn't sure whether to post this in the big thread that started with the Yahoo story, in the 'I stand with JT' thread, or here in the 'Not all in' thread. But we all have to live with our decisions.

JT messed up by not discussing the e-mails he received back in April with tOSU legal counsel. He's guilty of an NCAA violation because of that and deserves to be penalized.

I think there's a significant difference, however, between JT sitting on that information (at least from an NCAA compliance perspective) and guys like Bruce Pearl committing recruiting violations and then lying to the NCAA about it and trying to orchestrate a coverup by getting other coaches to clam up and asking parents of recruits to not be forthcoming to the NCAA. Seeing JT lumped in with guys like that is sickening to me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that, when OSU self-reported after receiving info from the Federal Government in April, JT was asked whether he received any prior information that led him to believe players were involved in selling memorabilia to this guy, and he basically said he'd only heard rumors but nothing on point. That seems incredibly dishonest and, while not as devious as what Pearl did, at least in the same vein.

But I'm proud of the way that tOSU has dealt with these issues.

I have mixed feelings on this one. On the one hand, I'm glad OSU the institution seems to be very proactive with self reporting. That is how it should be. On the other hand, to me, that press conference yesterday was a disgrace in light of the actual subject matter of the emails released. It's pretty clear that those above Tressel are either going along with this ridiculous confidentiality spin, or actually conceived it themselves. The emails speak for themselves, and it only makes matters much worse, in my opinion, to say anything but, "Jim Tressel's a good man, but he screwed up bad here. He placed his concomitant desires to win and protect the kids in his program above his duty to monitor the program, and he'll now have to pay the price." I still would contend that 2 games isn't enough.

 

[brutus2002]

He put himself and his players above the University. TP and Jim Tressel are not greater than OSU. IMO Tressels ego allowed him to believe this.

He not only knew about the items being sold but he lied to the Buckeye Nation as a whole in December...He said they knew nothing until then.

There e-mail show there was no confidentiality or safety issues...even if there were the man has signed many contracts and some have been for multi-million dollar contracts...he knows when legal documents come into your possession that pertain to you, your subordinates, or your boss that your consult an attorney and you never hide it from your employer!!!!

His statement was complete bullshit. Maybe his nickname "Senator" is 100% spot on...we all know they are vague, great talkers, and full of shit. He lost my respect. This was a cover up plain and simple.

OSU>Jim Tressel

We have a cancer at OSU and IMO I hope it doesn't spread. I could care less if they fire him. His arrogance was his undoing here. He will never be viewed the same. I live in Alabama and everyone is talking ABOUT IT HERE. He damaged the University...him and the Posse he was trying to protect.

It's a damn shame stupid shit like this takes away from what our basketball team is doing on the court. Now before every basketball game we are gonna have to hear about this shit rather than basketball.

This has ruined the 2011 season for me...I hope after taking a break from football for a few months I will get hungry for it again. All next season we are gonna be hearing about this shit.

Another thing that sucks is this is exactly what Michigan needed...OSU to shoot itself in the foot. I bet those assholes are hi-fiving up there.

 

[sepia5]

This has ruined the 2011 season for me...

Fuck that. I can't wait to beat the snot out of those skunkbears from TSUN. It's all I think about.