I am not all in

[localyokel]

Meyer was forced to cut Newton loose. He was advised to by UF's legal eagles and the AD.

Oh! So, you mean he talked to other university personnel about the situation and sought their advice?

What a concept.

 

[unionfutura]

Oh! So, you mean he talked to other university personnel about the situation and sought their advice?

What a concept.

difference is Newton's problems were out in the public while JT had sole access to this information and fumbled it. UF's administration mandated that they wanted this kid gone. Meyer with his track record would have kept him in my opinion.

 

[stowfan]

difference is Newton's problems were out in the public while JT had sole access to this information and fumbled it. UF's administration mandated that they wanted this kid gone. Meyer with his track record would have kept him in my opinion.

Gator, Gator, are you there?? I'm going to hang up and listen.:)

 

[Steve19]

Mike - that will never be among the "proven" things. That is simply an interpretation to be made by people who look at what he did in covering up and withholding information. Why he did it is between him and God.

But Mike, really, it is not idiotic for people to assume that was his motive. That is the part of all this that is the hardest to take. That is the sad part. What is a blow is that the belief that tOSU is so different than other programs is now legitimately in question by folks that are NOT idiots.

And that does not make it so, but it does not make your protestations accurate just because you think it. Perception does matter, despite your saying "who cares what other people think!" Many fans and alums of tOSU do care what others think.

Gator, with all due respect to you personally, we differ greatly from the SEC in terms of what we consider to be appropriate and ethical behavior, as shown by the recruiting debate that has raged here. I happen to be among those who think that the SEC stinks to high heaven.

I am not naive. I realize the potential motivations that might have driven Tressel toward self-interest and skullduggery. I also realize that no laws were broken and that the culprits were punished already. So, now we are supposed to be ready to throw Tressel out the door, as some sanctimonious idiots suggest?

Well, before we do that, I want to see a host of really unethical people go. How about that Kentucky basketball coach in your beloved SEC? Would you really like to see the NCAA come into Florida with a fine-tooth comb?

Equal guilt is no defense. But just look at the shenanigans around the national champion, the Heisman trophy winner, the nonstop arrests at Iowa and Penn State, the Reggie Bush affair. I am tired of the hypocrisy and horse[Mark May] of the press. I am tired of an NCAA that does nothing but quickly rises when a program like Ohio State self-reports.

The tree must be judged by its fruit. Consider the influence that this man has had on the young men put in his care. Look at the fruit.

Incredibly poor judgement. Yes. An evil man who has cast a magic wand to hide behind a charade for more than a decade? No bloody way.

 

[Onebuckfan]

If this was almost any one of the other football factory schools where coaches ethical standards are win first deny and hide the rest. I'd just shake my head and say this is the cesspool of Div 1 football..BUT JT did not have the image of a Kiffin et.al...which makes it seem like a bigger fall and issue. If he were to be fired ..what do we want to replace him..A Win at all costs don't get caught coach who gets tOSU that Big trophy or do we want an ethical above board coach who doesn't get the big prize? There hasn't been what I consider a totally above board program win a NC in years!

 

[Steve19]

If this was almost any one of the other football factory schools where coaches ethical standards are win first deny and hide the rest. I'd just shake my head and say this is the cesspool of Div 1 football..BUT JT did not have the image of a Kiffin et.al...which makes it seem like a bigger fall and issue. If he were to be fired ..what do we want to replace him..A Win at all costs don't get caught coach who gets tOSU that Big trophy or do we want an ethical above board coach who doesn't get the big prize?

I guess that life has taught me that we all have good and evil and that no one is above sin. One sin does not the devil make, eh?

I continue to believe that Ohio State has one of the best coaches in college football, in part because of his high ethics. Has Tressel really damaged that with this disclosure? You betcha. But, I am willing to let him burn a bunch of "attaboys" right now and to redeem himself in the future. He will not be remembered for this and it will pass.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

This is going to be my last post on JT. Right now, I'm pretty disgusted with him. That doesn't mean that I've lost sight of his good qualities and some stellar accomplishments. I've even posted them as qualifiers to criticisms earlier in this thread. Right now, Tressel has deeply let down the university. I don't think it was a case of simply making the wrong decision but rather a result of a systematic belief in which he saw himself as separate from the university at large and answerable to only his personal conscious.

There are so many great things going on at Ohio State right now: Wexner's $100M gift, a #1 ranked basketball team going for a national championship, the formal kickoff of a $2.5B fundraising campaign, a freshman class next year that, depending on final confirmations, has the possibility of an average ACT of 30, two seniors just missed out on Rhodes Scholarships and the football team has one of the top ten apr's in the country.

Today, and at least for the near future, none of that is being talked about. Ohio State is being viewed as juyst another football factory with a shady coach. I hope JT has taken this to heart not merely as a lesson of "gee, I should have told compliance" but rather as a result of his hubris and view of himself as above the workings of the university. I hope that he will dedicate the rest of his career at Ohio State to changing those things about himself that led us to this debacle. If he does, he'll have no bigger fan than me. Right now, I'm just waiting.

 

[MaxBuck]

Ok I just have to get this off my chest.

Yesterday you were saying anyone who would dare use the word "lying" as to what was going on was being incredibly naive. Turns out someone was indeed lying or perhaps chose not to tell the truth.

Now today you find the whole situation laughable and want to remind us poor simple humans that we lack the mental firepower to see situations outside of a few predetermined constructs or "cliches" inferring that you of course have the required superior intellect to think outside of the cliches that get the rest of us poor dumb bastards through our dreary little lives.

Maybe its just me but I find that incredibly condescending and arrogant. For the most part I think BP members have done a fabulous job of expressing varied opinions in a respectful and non inflammatory manner but find your posts on the subject to be the exception.

1. I challenge you to identify one case when I suggested others to be "poor simple humans" or "poor dumb bastards." Did I suggest that lots of people are intellectually lazy? Well, that was my intent; lots of people are IMO (actually nearly all of us are from time to time IMO). And I still think the hyperbolic language being used about Coach Tressel's mistakes is "laughable," so I'll gladly cop to that one.

2. I don't think anyone here has demonstrated an inability to think past cliches; but I have seen a lot of opinions voiced that look like cliches to me.

3. Perhaps other people think that not being completely candid is the same as "lying." I don't. And I'll admit that I regard equating "lying" with "not telling everything you know under all circumstances" as being a pretty naive perspective. Mea culpa.

4. I do not put myself or my opinions above yours or those of anyone else here. I learn a whole lot from the commentary of people I disagree with.
Obviously, since this thread was started to voice the "I'm not supportive of Tressel in this business" point of view, there is much here for me to learn from.

 

[PlanetFrnd]

Part of the reason I can't get too mad at Tress (ok, I'm really not mad at all) is that I just do not believe in the rule. Along those lines, I'm with Wilbon and Fiutak (among others out there):


PTI 3/8:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/podcast/archive?id=2406595#
http://c.espnradio.com/audio/525895/pti_2011-03-08-194035.mp3

CFN:

http://cfn.scout.com/2/1054367.html

...My biggest problem with the entire episode going back to December is that I can't and won't accept that Terrelle Pryor and the rest of the lads did anything wrong. Let's get through all the NCAA mumbo-jumbo and all the hair-splitting; a college kid should be able to sell his own stuff.

Pryor, Dan Herron, DeVier Posey, and the rest, didn't commit and real crimes; all they did was break a few silly rules that most college athletes bend whether they know it or not. If Tressel obstructed justice or tampered with evidence in a real, live criminal investigation, then there wouldn't be a question whether or not he should've been fired. But it's doubtful whether or not the average sports fan really understands that Tressel really didn't do anything criminally wrong, and neither did his players.

I'm never a fan of the everyone-is-doing-it defense, but if you're going to start firing coaches for sweeping things under the rug, you'd have a wholesale change of staffs at 120 football programs tomorrow. Whether it's dealing with Tony flunking TV, underage drinking, pot smoking, or any one of a bazillion other problems, coaches have to deal with various issues on a daily basis. If you've ever wondered what it means when a player misses a game or three for the ever-nebulous "violation of team rules," it's usually because the coach is trying to put out a fire. I'm not saying what Tressel did in this case is fine, but it's not like he did anything that's out of the ordinary in the college coaching world. Yeah, I'm saying you should hate the game, not the player...

What I think is missing here from the analysis of the emails and the rules and the press conference and all the shit that's gone down is that there should be real concern from Tress, the Team and the other players that certain members of the team may have been putting themselves in situations that were actually bad, not just in violation of hypocritical NCAA rules. By the sound of things, any 18-22 year old college kids would have been smart to avoid that character Eddie Rife in general, nevermind what it means in terms of the NCAA...

 

[scarletmike]

I am extremely torn on this matter, and it really makes me uncertain of how to feel at this point. In reality, I am not an alum, nor did I ever attend tOSU (or be likely to do so). Rather I am an Ohio native who grew up with Buckeye sports - especially football - as a way of life, almost. To the point where, right or wrong, I almost feel a part of OSU like I had attended. As such, I cannot help but feel similar to what ORD and similar posters (who are alums/active donors) have described.

I think a much harsher penalty is deserved, and quite honestly, I hope that one is delivered. Is this cause for vacating the season? I think it very well could be, considering Tressel actively withheld information from an NCAA investigation, as well as (by the definition and nature of his withholding) lying to school and NCAA officials about what he may (not) have known. That by itself (disregarding past circumstances) seems like something the NCAA is likely to rule extremely harshly on, especially since (justly or unjustly), OSU seems to be a modern poster-child for NCAA investigations and possible sanctions.

I am certainly not "all in," and likely much more out than in, at this point. I hope that nothing more comes of this, but I have a feeling that the rabbit hole goes deeper still.

 

[notfadeaway]

I am deeply troubled by the events of the last few months with JT and tOSU....im sad to say this... you can count me as one who feels that we are just as bad as the SEC or USC if we don't do something more in terms of fines, suspensions, etc He knowingly allowed ineligble players to play, and then lied about it for nearly a year.,...Nixon lost his job over the same issues...I dont think it is too much to ask that our Head Football Coach be held to a higher level of accountability. No one should be above the law/rules...not even someone with a 9-1 record against Michigan!!!! I know this is blasphemy :(

 

[PlanetFrnd]

No one should be above the [strike]law[/strike]/rules...not even someone with a 9-1 record against Michigan!!!! I know this is blasphemy :(

Let's not mix ideas up here, Tressel didn't break any laws

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

You can't be serious...you read the e-mails.

I was serious...that's why I posted what I did.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

... you can count me as one who feels that we are just as bad as the SEC or USC if we don't do something more in terms of fines, suspensions, etc

Seriously? You equate getting a $300,000 house or getting $180-200,000 for your son the same as a couple players selling their own property?

He knowingly allowed ineligble players to play, and then lied about it for nearly a year

I agree about the first part, but the second part you act as if he was making statements on a daily basis saying he didn't know until December. Hell, he didn't even make a statement on this until December, so how can he be lying "for nearly a year"? There's a huge difference between: 1) His never bringing forward what he knew from those e-mails, and 2) His saying in December that he didn't know about the violations until then.

 

[Diego-Bucks]

This is going to be my last post on JT. Right now, I'm pretty disgusted with him. That doesn't mean that I've lost sight of his good qualities and some stellar accomplishments. I've even posted them as qualifiers to criticisms earlier in this thread. Right now, Tressel has deeply let down the university. I don't think it was a case of simply making the wrong decision but rather a result of a systematic belief in which he saw himself as separate from the university at large and answerable to only his personal conscious.

There are so many great things going on at Ohio State right now: Wexner's $100M gift, a #1 ranked basketball team going for a national championship, the formal kickoff of a $2.5B fundraising campaign, a freshman class next year that, depending on final confirmations, has the possibility of an average ACT of R0, two seniors just missed out on Rhodes Scholarships and the football team has one of the top ten apr's in the country.

Today, and at least for the near future, none of that is being talked about. Ohio State is being viewed as juyst another football factory with a shady coach. I hope JT has taken this to heart not merely as a lesson of "gee, I should have told compliance" but rather as a result of his hubris and view of himself as above the workings of the university. I hope that he will dedicate the rest of his career at Ohio State to changing those things about himself that led us to this debacle. If he does, he'll have no bigger fan than me. Right now, I'm just waiting.

Some of that national perception that OSU is just another football factory was already vindicated when the original case was presented on Dec. 8th. It was vindicated when Troy Smith was suspended. It was vindicated with Maurice Clarett. Those that dislike OSU for whatever reason are only using this to further their dislike. I just don't see how any of the "what if Tressel reported this earlier" changes that aspect to the conversation.

We self-report our violations and get our collective asses handed to us in the national media. We do the right thing, and it doesn't convert the haters. So why worry about it?

If Tressel reports this in April, and the investigation concludes and they are ruled ineligible for the 2010 season yadayadayada, then the haters would have just gotten an early start to proving that Ohio State is out of control. People jump on the 06/07 MNC losses as evidence we suck, they disregard our proud victories, they lampoon the Big Ten.

In the national media, Ohio State and a few other universities are held to a higher standard because they hold themselves to a higher standard. Does anybody really hear the vitriol and furor over any of the more outrageous incidents that happen in college football as they do when a Buckeye story breaks out? I mean seriously, other schools have athletes that nearly beat another person to death, threaten their ex-gf's life, commit armed robbery, have a serious DUI epidemic. But those stories die down rather quickly.

Few schools have the media keep away "ammunition" like Ohio State. Anytime I've read the tattoo/memorabilia incident, it gets linked back to every Buckeye scandal since Clarett and usually mentions Tressel's YSU days.

Oklahoma scandal? Par for the course.
Auburn is possibly going to be on probation, again? Meh, we've seen it before and most Tiger fans wear cheating like a badge of honor.
Arrests in Pitt or Iowa? Didn't expect much better.
U$C? Obviously that was gonna happen when Snoop Dogg roams the sidelines.
North Carolina: home of the agent/coach? Well, they weren't winning much anyways...
Ohio State? My god, they have failed our moral compass and should be condemned from the football universe.

I'm not aiming to defend Tressel. But I just don't see the point in attempting to combat the national perception of a university whose football team is as polarizing as any in the nation and one of the most polarizing in any American sport. In general, Ohio State is not necessarily the cleanest athletic department (lots of ticky tack violations), but it is the biggest (36 varsity sports) and it is probably the best at self-reporting. We are the NCAA compliance office's wet-dream.

Not trying to come across as some elitist-, holier-than-thou argument. But seriously, does any major football program self-report like Ohio State does? And does any major football program get shat on by national media for the results of those self-reports like Ohio State does?