Hunting?

[vrbryant]

Ok, I can see you have no intention of being open minded...carry on Corky.

Well, since the NSB took the high road, I was basically just going to give up. But if you want it, you got it.

First of all, the opening to your first significant post

I'm not going to jump into a pissing match, but some of your statements show that you have never hunted.

carries no weight. I conceded in the very post you quoted that I have never hunted, and recognized through sarcasm that I was therefore largely unqualified to speak intelligently about what the process really entails. The fun part for me, of course, is that I don't need to have an educated concept of how the whole thing goes down to feel comfortable lambasting it. I clearly can't say that there aren't exceptions to the rule. There are hunters whose company I enjoy, whose intellects I respect and even admire. There is, however, a well-founded stereotype in existence that people who engage in hunting are the same people who watch NASCAR, listen to Toby Keith, beat their kids, lust after their cousins, drink Old Milwaukee out of the can and so forth. Many (if not most) of these people are completely insecure and pigheaded and are there not because they're concerned about preventing deer from starving to death, but rather because they enjoy killing things. That is a well-documented flaw in the human brain. I've seen a man pick up a dog and choke it against a wall. I've seen kids ride around a neighborhood with aluminum baseball bats, looking for stray cats to mutilate. I've seen a guy pull a fish out of a tank and saw its head off with a bread knife because someone dared him to. You can tell me all you want about shooting the creature right through the heart, killing it instantly, and being humane. Good for you. But you doing it the right way does not in any way preclude others from turning the entire process into yet another revolting display of how pathetically inconsiderate the average human is capable of being. Hunting, for a great many people who do it, is simply a legalized way for them to satisfy their desire to be destructive.

Now, the validity of the above statements does not hinge on whether I have experienced hunting first hand. You want to tell me that hunting is hard? That's fine. I believe it. The human, through years of evolution, lost most of his innate ability to survive in the wild. I imagine there was a point in history at which we didn't need to wait for them to "get within 30 yards for a clean shot." So cool. You're skilled. Doesn't change the fact that the deer doesn't get it.

 

[DaytonBuck]

drink Old Milwaukee out of the can

Is it ok to drink Old Milwaukee out of a forty ounce bottle?

 

[NorthShoreBuck]

You know I was going to mention to DaddyBig Bucks that this thread was

less idiotic, less ignorant, less pseudo-intellectual, less self-important, less self-righteous blathering masquerading as argument than any Notre Dame thread on the football board,

But then you had to go and mention Old Miwaukee!

 

[BayBuck]

The idiotic, ignorant, pseudo-intellectual, self-important, self-righteous blathering masquerading as argument reminds me why I spend so little time in the open forum.

So what kind of argument are you making here? :tongue2:

 

[Muck]

Are you suggesting that a deer is capable of accurately perceiving the threat posed by a man hiding in a tree with a rifle?

You're damn right I am (...I'm sure your argument here will revolve around the semantics of the use of the term "accurately"...).

Deer in the wild aren't quite like the goats at the kids petting area at the Columbus Zoo.

They know very well that human beings are a threat. They don't saunter up next to you while you're pissing against a tree and ask if it's ok to use the next tree over. They do their level best to avoid humans. They do this because they know humans are a predator species towards them.

Do they know the effective range of the slug fired from the shotgun of said predator in the tree? No probably not (although if push came to shave I'd put money on them making a better guess than you could ). But they do know that humans are able to kill them at a distance and they work very, very hard not to come within that distance...as they know their lives depend on it.

By your own admission most of your argument is based on ignorance, and going by your last post there's a good bit of bigotry involved as well. Feel free to believe that most hunters are little more than low browed sociopaths, but please don't forget for one second that your perception doesn't have any basis in fact.

 

[Buckin' A]

I've seen a man pick up a dog and choke it against a wall. I've seen kids ride around a neighborhood with aluminum baseball bats, looking for stray cats to mutilate. I've seen a guy pull a fish out of a tank and saw its head off with a bread knife because someone dared him to.

Boy, if I had a nickle for every time someone compared deer hunting to choking dogs, smashing cats with ball bats, and the old fun past time of sawing a fish head off.....

Maybe it isn't for you...that's fine. But talking out of your rear about something you have never experienced sure doesn't make for a very good arguement.

Also, I have never humped my cousin, but I sure do like that Toby Keith.

 

[vrbryant]

Wow, that took off quickly.

NSB - you are well-informed, eloquent and convincing, and I enjoy your posts. I don't know why you'd think that it would bug me that hunting is becoming more popular with wealthier folk (I kinda knew that already anyway), as I certainly don't associate social class or income with what I value in a person. There are clearly (as I've been willing to admit) many things about the actual hunting process that I do not have a working knowledge of. I guess the ultimate conclusion I draw is that while the deer may be sneaky and have very articulate senses of sight, smell, what have you, the threat level just isn't the same. It never will be. I recall a news story once about a man who had to kill a deer that had smashed through a large bay window into his house and was endangering his family because it was freaking the fuck out. Killed it with his bare hands, he did. He was provoked into doing it. The guy could have gutted that deer with a pair of channel locks for all I cared--it was necessary for him to bring that animal down. The definition of sport that I think really applies to hunting is the one that hints at its trivial nature. You might say that an older brother picks on a younger brother for sport, meaning that he's doing it to amuse himself. Athletes and teams of athletes engage in sporting activities because it amuses them and because - in many cases - both sides benefit. There are inherent risks involved, of course, but everybody signs up as a willing participant and submits to the rigors of the contest. Hunting, by contrast, has one side that is willing and eager (the hunters), and one side that just wants to be left the fuck alone (the game). Again, I really don't care enough about the issue to really rail against the process--it's just not for me. It's not going anywhere, and I'm kind of okay with that. Most of the more acerbic things I say on the subject are said almost entirely out of a motivation to stir shit up. Make me dictator for a day, and I might spend a few minutes thinking of a more efficient, more stringently regulated way to accomplish what allowing the average yokel to go out and play bang-bang does. But it's not just a huge issue for me.

Muck - Ya got me.

Bucknut319 - I'm editing my post just for you. The allusions to animal cruelty were meant to illustrate that thing that resides in some people that makes them want to harm things that are weaker and more helpless than they are. I've witnessed it just like I'm sure you have. They're not comparisons to hunting--they're examples of things people do to feed the need to be malicious. The need is more pronounced in some than in others. I'm sure there was more of it in, say, John Wayne Gacy's body than there is in, say, Oprah Winfrey's. Fact is, I can say with absolute certainty that there are people who hunt strictly to exercise the freedom they've been granted to kill stuff. And for the record, I'm betting you've never experienced hot, furious sexual congress with another man, but something tells me you'd have a laundry list of problems you have with the concept.

I'm about to leave the office (productive day!), so I'm gonna cut it short. Last thing I'll say is that I do love the pre-programmed pro-hunter retort. You know, the thing that states that anyone who's not into hunting is a fat, globular, pasty-white shut-in who is "on his computer all day." Mmm. And I'm the one with the argument that has no factual basis? I don't hunt, and I was captain of the high school debate team, not the football team, but there are a lot of things to do to derive pleasure from and gain an appreciate for nature that don't involve putting projectiles through animals. Just...you know. FYI.

 

[Best Buckeye]

Boy, if I had a nickle for every time someone compared deer hunting to choking dogs, smashing cats with ball bats, and the old fun past time of sawing a fish head off.....

There is nothing wrong with smashing cats with ball bats , or anything for that matter so that a good thing.:)

 

[BB73]

I'm sitting at my computer all day, pasty white, eating cooked animals, drinking beer, watching NASCAR, and trying to figure out which side of this fucking argument I should take!

Looks like I'm on the hunters' side, 3-2. Terminate Bambi with extreme prejudice!

 

[Best Buckeye]

I'm sitting at my computer all day, pasty white, eating cooked animals, drinking beer, watching NASCAR, and trying to figure out which side of this fucking argument I should take!

Looks like I'm on the hunters' side, 3-2. Terminate Bambi with extreme prejudice!

Have another beer . All these people against hunting forget one big thing. If it wasn't for their ancestors hunting they wouldn't even be here. because their kin would have died from starvation :)

 

[Buckin' A]

So, how did all the deer hunters do on the first day of gun season?

I passed on a small 6 point buck and 3 doe. Too early to not be picky and I'd like to take one that is a little more mature...but I'll be back out Wednesday.

 

[PrincetonBuckeye]

You gotta get up here to hunt. Those Texas whitetails are tiny compared to Ohio's.[/quote
Idk its a toss up!

I grew up in OH and now live in Texas....whitetail are TINY in Texas...u do need to go to Ohio....you'll think your killing an Elk compared to Texas deer

 

[ekeen]

Nothing walked in front of me today but I did kick up three does that were bedded down in some CRP grass on the way back to my spot after lunch.

I am not going out again until Sunday but it was a great day to be outside and I saw a lot of fox squirrels and my buddies kicked up some pheasants.

From what I heard, today was slow in Logan County. I would take a cold day in the 20s to a day like today for more animal movement.

 

[PrincetonBuckeye]

Is it ok to drink Old Milwaukee out of a forty ounce bottle?

yea becasue after your done drinking it you can piss in the bottle in your tree stand!

 

[The Man]

can't wait for the drunk hillbilly stories about hunters shooting their friend/relative to start making the newspapers. I love those. I don't hunt only because I just find it to be ridiculously boring. I don't have the patience or desire to shoot anything bad enough to sit in a tree for 8 hours.