How Far Are You Willing to Go...?

[SweetBuckeye]

If you recruit with character and honesty, you'll get the right kind of kid to commit (ie, Garrett Goebel). Stay the same, it's working fine on the field.

 

[scarletngray]

If you recruit with character and honesty, you'll get the right kind of kid to commit (ie, Garrett Goebel). Stay the same, it's working fine on the field.

Exactly! You can add to that list C. Wells, Mike Brewster, Mike Adams, JB Shugarts, Stoneburner, etc. etc.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Oneshot - I have to say, I'm a little shocked at your position. I do appreciate your honesty on the issue, but I just can't agree that it's OK to break the rules (I think you said bend, which I admit is slightly different) when so much is on the line (in terms of money for the schools, in terms of the development of young men, etc.)

I agree that cheating is nothing new.. that setting someone up with the "right guy" for a cheap deal on a great car is common place... But, what you're doing when you "buy" a player is creating an atmosphere of individuals. First off, most of these D-IA type athletes have been "THE MAN" at their HS. Now they're getting freebies and being coddled and not learning the first thing about humility or how to behave... the law becomes below them. They always have someone take care of it... and why do they think this? Because someone ALWAYS has for them.. all because they could run fast, or catch or throw....

And... the next thing you know, you've got a Chris Henry on your hands... a Mo C... a Mike Vick... (Just throwing some names out, not really thinking too much about the particulars)

Meanwhile, by telling a kid "No" I will not cheat to obtain your services - even where someone else will (and does) - you're saying "look, kid... you're good, but you're not all that matters." We don't need a bunch of individuals who might have all world talent, but can't play on a team. Who cant be told by a coach where they need to improve. Teams win sporting events, not individuals ('cept for maybe Basketball, where an individual talent can take over a game unlike Football)... not talent and talent alone. Guys who commit on the "soft cell" want to be there.. want to be part of the TEAM... guys who have to get "wined and dined" are in it for themselves. And, while they may win individual awards, the bulk of them won't obtain success. (Although, at the end of the day, they'll sign a multi-million dollar deal... so.. what do they care... until the Feds come knocking, I guess.... which is rare)

While I can see the "hard sell" technique having it's place, I simply cannot agree with your tacit approval of the more underhanded approaches.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Incidentally, if my giving a recruit a gym bag and some extra shirts is the difference between him coming to my school and going to some other, I think maybe that kid's not for me. While I don't necessarily see the "foul" as extreme, I just can't imagine that I'd want a player who is so easily persuaded.

Indeed, a better test might be to offer these sorts of freebies, and if the guy accepts telling him to go pound salt, get some self respect, and have a nice life. If he declines, then you know you've got a kid who knows what's important. But, again... I really don't see the harm in a free T-Shirt or gym bag or what not. I suppose it's more about what those freebies "lead to" (in a marijuana's a gateway drug sense)

 

[808 Buck]

If you recruit with character and honesty, you'll get the right kind of kid to commit (ie, Garrett Goebel). Stay the same, it's working fine on the field.

But, what you're doing when you "buy" a player is creating an atmosphere of individuals. First off, most of these D-IA type athletes have been "THE MAN" at their HS. Now they're getting freebies and being coddled and not learning the first thing about humility or how to behave... the law becomes below them. They always have someone take care of it... and why do they think this? Because someone ALWAYS has for them.. all because they could run fast, or catch or throw....

That about sums it up for me. Credit to BKB for the second quote. Once people lose respect for your integrity, it's tough to be a trusted leader. I'm talking important stuff, like football, not politics.

 

[Best Buckeye]

Every year, we hear the same old routine: "Tressel can't close! ... JT is a lazy recruiter! ... Ohio State doesn't show kids enough love! ... The Buckeyes don't push kids hard enough for a commitment! ).

I can't really believe that anyone can take exception with the recruiting job JT is done. All the guy has done is win a NC, beat the snot out of everyone including tsun. which we all know that everyone one in here would drag their testicles over broken glass if only we beat them more than they beat us let alone 5 of 6. Oh sure we can all wish we had gotten this guy or that one but we can't get them all. Or maybe we shopuld bring back Cooper. we all know he was a heck of a recruiter.
Give me a break!
In recognition of those who disagree with the success JT has had I offer....

 

[tibor75]

I seriously doubt the JT approach differs from the approach taken by the other Big 10 coaches.

 

[jwinslow]

I seriously doubt the JT approach differs from the approach taken by the other Big 10 coaches.

In what way? OSU & UM seem to have different philosophies about how often they offer, and when to offer. As a casual observer, OSU often slowplays kids by waiting to offer... while Michigan will often "offer" and then slowplay them (ie they don't truly have an offer they can jump on immediately).

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

First, JT and co. are not soft sellers. That's get that straight. Actually there are no soft sellers, period, because if you "soft" sell, you go out of business. The fundamentals of selling is being aggressive; don't mistaken ethical recruiting with a lack of aggressiveness.

I doubt we are "soft" selling Pryor, Thomas, or Goebel before he committed to us. And let's not forget about the story of the entire staff showing up at Mike D'Andrea's doorsteps.

Am I in favor of unethical recruiting? No.

 

[Bestbuck36]

Risk vs. Reward. One recruit or one season is never going to be worth a lifetime of media scrutiny and mudslinging towards the Ohio State University.

The Clarret fiasco, even though we did nothing against the rules with him, nearly toppled anything JT and staff had built, are building or would build in the future. Kids who need to be bought are bad apples and I'm very satisfied with the "bunch" we've gotten and how they are arriving.

 

[Napoleonbuck]

I'd do the soft approach mostly, but with recruits like Barksdale who appear indecisive, I'd use the hard approach.

 

[IronBuckI]

JT's approach, whatever it may actually be, has worked very well and seems to keep us out of the cross hairs of the NCAA. 5-1 against UM and 4-2 in bolw games, with 4 of those being BCS bowls, I would say what he's doing is working.

I seriously doubt the JT approach differs from the approach taken by the other Big 10 coaches.

The whole character/moral fiber standard that many fans hold , and attempt to project, for their home team coaches does become difficult to stomach sometimes.

 

[scarletngray]

"We (the ENTIRE GOEBEL FAMILY) are thrilled to have this opportunity to become Buckeye fans!!! And this is not an easy task to becone "one" with the greatest fan base in COLLEGE ATHLETICS. The integrity & loyalty of Buckeye fans TRULY put the Buckeyes at the top of Garrett list in terms of fan support. The Goebel's want to thank you all for making this decision easier than the various internet sites / forums would have led you to believe. We look forward to watching Garrett do his "talking" on the field starting fall of 2008."

Brian E. Goebel (XPUNISHR)
quote from BN

Interestingly enough, things like integrity and loyalty still matter to potential student athletes AND their families. NOT only with the coaching staff but the fan base as well.

I have to applaud those here at BP who were in contact with Brian throughout this process, as I'm sure they are some of the people XPunisher is referring to in the above quote.

:osu:

 

[FritoBandito]

JT is doing it exactly right and his record proves it. The poll is merely a conceit to get this discussion underway. Thanks to LJB for that.

IMHO the "JT can't close" nonsense results from high profile recruits, mainly from out of state, who announce late in the process (at the Army AA game, on ESPN or at a presser in their school cafeteria on the final day) that they are going somewhere other than tOSU. This gives some eager recruitniks the false impression that JT does not do well late in the process.

Reality, I believe, is that these very high profile kids usually end up right where you'd expect them to -- at their dominant state school or another nearby powerhouse. But they have played the recruiting process out to the very end and, in most cases, played it shrewdly to their own benefit.

These kids desperately want an OSU offer early on because of the prestige it adds to their recruitment resume, not because they actually want to play in Ohio. If they're good enough, of course JT will make them an offer. Who wouldn't? But the reality is that many OOS recruits are using that offer to promote themselves to other, closer-and-more-likely programs.

Of course there are exceptions: Ben Martin, Fred Davis, now Kevin Koger, in-state. Mike Brewster, JB Shugarts, Santonio Holmes, out-of-state. But they are the exceptions. If you follow recruiting long enough, you come to realize that kids generally end up right where you'd expect them to. Most Florida kids stay south, most California kids stay west, most Ohio kids stay in God's country, etc. So, when the really high profile OOS kids announce at the end of the process that they're not coming to Ohio after all, it seems to some like a failure on JT's part. Ridiculous! It's kids doing the expected -- staying close to home or going to the school dad played for. Family ties and geography are the two predominant motivators -- for the kids who announce at the end, same as for the kids who sign up early.

 

[BearBuck27]

IMHO the "JT can't close" nonsense results from high profile recruits, mainly from out of state, who announce late in the process (at the Army AA game, on ESPN or at a presser in their school cafeteria on the final day) that they are going somewhere other than tOSU. This gives some eager recruitniks the false impression that JT does not do well late in the process.

Reality, I believe, is that these very high profile kids usually end up right where you'd expect them to -- at their dominant state school or another nearby powerhouse. But they have played the recruiting process out to the very end and, in most cases, played it shrewdly to their own benefit.

These kids desperately want an OSU offer early on because of the prestige it adds to their recruitment resume, not because they actually want to play in Ohio. If they're good enough, of course JT will make them an offer. Who wouldn't? But the reality is that many OOS recruits are using that offer to promote themselves to other, closer-and-more-likely programs.

Of course there are exceptions: Ben Martin, Fred Davis, now Kevin Koger, in-state. Mike Brewster, JB Shugarts, Santonio Holmes, out-of-state. But they are the exceptions. If you follow recruiting long enough, you come to realize that kids generally end up right where you'd expect them to. Most Florida kids stay south, most California kids stay west, most Ohio kids stay in God's country, etc. So, when the really high profile OOS kids announce at the end of the process that they're not coming to Ohio after all, it seems to some like a failure on JT's part. Ridiculous! It's kids doing the expected -- staying close to home or going to the school dad played for. Family ties and geography are the two predominant motivators -- for the kids who announce at the end, same as for the kids who sign up early.

I agree completely it is so tough to recruit OOS (especially in warm climate areas), and some people just don't understand that. Here's a post I just put on the Scout free board in response to "bucknastee" saying that this is the first year JT is recruiting well out of state:

Who cares about how the OOS prospects were rated when in high school? We have three stars on our defensive unit imo (Gholston, Laurinaitis, Jenkins). All three are from OOS.

Gholston-Miiiiiiichigan
Laurinitis-Minnesota
Jenkins-New Jersey

Then you have starters like Russel (Gerogia), Washington (Indiana), Grant (California), and Worthington (New York). I think this proves that JT can recruit OOS studs. Will he get every one? Hell no. Will he bat .500 w/ OOS prospects? Hell no. There's a LOT of schools out there for these OOS prospects to consider (especially their home-state schools).