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Holding Calls--Penalty Discussion (Merged)

Sitting in the stands, we see it all the time. Blatant, obvious holding going on and its never called. Very frustrating for the crowd.

Its been going on forever though. Imagine they had called holding on Miami just a few times in the Fiesta Bowl. What they were doing wasn't really holding as much as it was Sexual Assault.
 
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One answer might be easier tear-aways for linemen for a couple of games. Heck, let 'em change five or six times but leave the opposition with jersey in their hands a few times and it will get called.
 
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One answer might be easier tear-aways for linemen for a couple of games. Heck, let 'em change five or six times but leave the opposition with jersey in their hands a few times and it will get called.
How about these jerseys? They look like they'd be pretty tight and hard to get a hold of. :biggrin:
umc222-s.jpg
 
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On a side note, I don't think the Patriots have been called for holding since the 2000 season. Why do you think Brady does so well?

I think Brady learned that trick when he was in Michigan. You don't see many holding calls against Michigan. Maybe its just me watching the game with scarlet-colored glasses, but I can usually see some pretty good take-down moves that would score big in wrestling that aren't called.
 
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I didn't know where to put this, so I figured I'd start a new thread...

It seems that over the past few seasons, the Buckeyes don't seem to get the holding calls that they deserve. I remember making a stink (i.e. bitching) about it during the 2002 season, and sometimes I feel like I haven't stopped complaining about it since. Gohlstin, Patterson, and Pitcock were tackled on numerous plays this past weekend without flags. I don't get it. Anyways, that brings me to my question:

What's going on with the OSU holding calls (multiple choice)?
1. This a result of me being unable to take off my scarley glasses. All fans moan about their d-linemen getting held on almost every play. By the way, I was watching the MNF game last night with a Steelers fan (I know, I know, but he's still a friend...) and he sounded a lot like I do.
2. Refs tend to let things slide a little more when a d-line is dominating an o-line. It seems that since 2002, Ohio State has had very quick DE's, which can obviously lead to "take downs" by offensive tackles.
3. In an attempt to speed up and add offense to the game, the officials are calling less holding across the board.
4. This all just part of my imagination.
 
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You could call a hold on any play, it seems to me. I think also that the refs are not able to watch the line so closely as to catch the "slight" holds that you may see. I mean, if a guy is getting tackled, that's one thing, but the shirt tugs and such tend to go unnoticed.
 
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We are among the nations leaders in sacks.
So I guess we're doing OK!
The NCAA has made, in my opinion, a decision to give the offenses an advantage.
People like to see scoring.
It's as simple as that!
 
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My problem with it is that never seems proportionate. The "you can call holding on every play" thing irks me. If you can, call it. But if your going to let some stuff go. make it fair. Boone has been called for holding a few times already for ticky tacky things. But Gholston gets put in a head lock and its ignored.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks;612026; said:
You could call a hold on any play, it seems to me.

Bingo. Holding is the toughest penalty to call and has the most variance amongst the official crews.

There are some games when I'm screaming for holding calls and then others when I'm screaming for the refs to let the kids play and quit throwing all of the flags.

Its only holding if it is happening to your team :)
 
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My impression is that we're being held much less this year than in 2002.

The holding on Will Smith and Darrion Scott in '02 drove me crazy. This year I haven't thought much about it.

My only thoughts about the officials thus far were during the Texas game. When we had numerous calls against us and Texas still had none well into the game, I turned to my wife and said; "I think they're calling it fairly straight, but I bet a lot of people are complaining about this on BP right now." (Yes, I'm saying I think we committed more penalities than Texas did)
 
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And we, OSU, are still making more penalties than other teams.
It must just be our youth! :tongue2:

We currently rank #65 in the country in penalties.
So that would seem to suggest the youth thing is accurate.
 
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Yertle;612017; said:
I didn't know where to put this, so I figured I'd start a new thread...

It seems that over the past few seasons, the Buckeyes don't seem to get the holding calls that they deserve. I remember making a stink (i.e. bitching) about it during the 2002 season, and sometimes I feel like I haven't stopped complaining about it since. Gohlstin, Patterson, and Pitcock were tackled on numerous plays this past weekend without flags. I don't get it. Anyways, that brings me to my question:

What's going on with the OSU holding calls (multiple choice)?
1. This a result of me being unable to take off my scarley glasses. All fans moan about their d-linemen getting held on almost every play. By the way, I was watching the MNF game last night with a Steelers fan (I know, I know, but he's still a friend...) and he sounded a lot like I do.
2. Refs tend to let things slide a little more when a d-line is dominating an o-line. It seems that since 2002, Ohio State has had very quick DE's, which can obviously lead to "take downs" by offensive tackles.
3. In an attempt to speed up and add offense to the game, the officials are calling less holding across the board.
4. This all just part of my imagination.

Leaving the narrow issue of holding aside, I did some general research on OSU and OSU opponents' penalties since 2001 (when Coach Tressel took over the program). The penalty ("P") numbers, penalty yards ("Y"), and penalty yards per game ("PYPG"), including bowl games are as follows:

2001: OSU: 68P/551PY/45.9PYPG - OSU Opp. 61P/437PY/36.4PYPG
2002: OSU: 76P/571PY/40.8PYPG - OSU Opp. 66P/561PY/40.1PYPG
2003: OSU: 93P/799PY/61.5 PYPG - OSU Opp. 82P/565PYPG/43.5PYPG
2004: OSU: 71P/537PY/44.8PYPG - OSU Opp. 72P/548PY/45.7PYPG
2005: OSU: 65P/578PY/48.2PYPG - OSU Opp. 59P/425PY/35.4PYPG
2006 9/20: OSU: 19P/170PY/56.7PYPG - OSU Opp. 14P/102PY/34.0 PYPG.

The OSU average per season for 2001-2005 is: 74.6P/607.2PY/48.24 PYPG (The PYPG isn't precisely accurate because I just averaged the seasonal PYPG numbers w/o weighting seasons according to the number of games played. Still, it should be pretty close)

The OSU Opp. average per season for 2001-2005 is: 68P/507.2PY/40.22 PYPG (With the same accuracy disclaimer for the PYPG).

I got or derived the statistics above from the official OSU AD website. I also checked out the NCAA's penalty rankings by fewest number of penalties called against a team for OSU for the Tressel era (through 2005). I did not do this by yards because the NCAA statistics don't include bowl games. The numbers are as follows:

2001: 18th
2002: 20th
2003: 76th
2004: 37th
2005: 18th

Observations based on the numbers:

1. Under Coach Tressel, OSU has consistently incurred more penalties than its opponents. OSU has had more penalties and more penalty yards than its opponents in four out of the five full years of the Tressel era and is on pace to do so again in 2006. For those who might think that Coach Tressel needs to impose more discipline, however, it is important to note that OSU has placed in the top third of NCAA programs in fewest penalties committed in four of Coach Tressel's five full years (and has placed in the top fifth three of the five years). Since OSU's opponents have consistently been penalized even less than OSU over that same period, it seems clear that the perception among some OSU fans that OSU opponents don't get many penalties called against them is an accurate one.

2. With the exception of 2003, OSU's penalty numbers have been remarkably consistent (65-76P/537-578PPY/40.8-48.2PYPG). While the 2003 team always claimed that the then-full blooming Clarett fiasco wasn't a distraction, the high outlier 2003 penalty numbers suggest that perhaps it was. Alternatively or in conjunction, perhaps the negative media coverage that year affected officials at a subconscious level or Will Smith's apparent mission to commit more obvious personal fouls than Bill Laimbeer that year was sufficient to skew the numbers.

3. While I didn't include the number above, the perception among many OSU and other Big Ten fans that Michigan "gets the calls" appears to have some merit. UM's rankings in the NCAA's "fewest penalties against" statistic are:

2001: 13
2002: 12
2003: 7
2004: 11
2005: 1

I'm too lazy to look up UM opponents' penalty statistics, but I'll give greenies to anyone who does so and posts them here.

More general b.s. observations:

1. Although the numbers support the conclusion that OSU "doesn't get the penalty calls" on opponents that it deserves, it seems possible that the relatively predictable nature of the OSU offense and bend don't break rather than gambling philosophy of the defense over much of the sample period may have tended to induce fewer mental errors (note also the few turnovers forced by the OSU defense in 2004 and 2005) by opponents than might otherwise be the case. Of course, the early 2006 evidence doesn't seem to support this hypothesis.

2. Re: holding, my b.s. observation is that it seems almost impossible for an OSU DL to get a holding call against the offense. Watch the first play of the NIU game for an example. On the outside, however, it seems that officials are better at picking up on holding, and I do think that OSU DB's get away with quite a bit of hand checking in pass coverage (the absurd 2003 NCSU game notwithstanding). Overall, the Big Ten just seems to let the interior holding go, but it is damn frustrating when OSU typically has a strong DL. I think Pitcock's been tackled in the open field more than TGII and Gonzo combined this year.
 
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