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HC Ryan Day (B1G Coach of Year, B1G Champion, National Champion)

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I see the middle ground here.

They come out and fix it this week but eventually, this team is going to lose again.

Its just a mediocre team unless you can get 4 consistently involved. Defense is still volatile at best and special teams are so-so at best.

Where does the lift come from when we think "they are going to raise their game"? One game, all pissed off/embarrassed after the USC debacle? Sure.

8 straight from there with zero tomato cans in that eight? This years edition just isn't that good imo.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
I see the middle ground here.

They come out and fix it this week but eventually, this team is going to lose again.

Its just a mediocre team unless you can get 4 consistently involved. Defense is still volatile at best and special teams are so-so at best.

Where does the lift come from when we think "they are going to raise their game"? One game, all pissed off/embarrassed after the USC debacle? Sure.

8 straight from there with zero tomato cans in that eight? This years edition just isn't that good imo.
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just start playing the freshmen and beat ttun is all im asking
 
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I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if the inconsistency continued. It has been the only constant this season. For no reason I can articulate, this “feels” like one of those moments where the wobbling stops and a direction is chosen, for good or ill. All that really means is that my experience has given me some heuristic sense that I’ve seen this before and this is how it will go. If it were something I could decompose into its contributing factors, then I wouldn’t call it heuristic. The direction that resolves out of all of these factors that I can’t express will be an emergent property of them, and thus not individually attributable to any of them.

This is what some people call “going with their gut”. It’s why sometimes “going with your gut” can be the right call. Whether or not it is here will be revealed over the next 4 games (3 weeks and 3 days)
 
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Jaxbuck said:
I see the middle ground here.

They come out and fix it this week but eventually, this team is going to lose again.

Its just a mediocre team unless you can get 4 consistently involved. Defense is still volatile at best and special teams are so-so at best.

Where does the lift come from when we think "they are going to raise their game"? One game, all pissed off/embarrassed after the USC debacle? Sure.

8 straight from there with zero tomato cans in that eight? This years edition just isn't that good imo.
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It's funny, because even when it's a mediocre team to us, they're still a a really good football team. Just not up to our high standards. There are a whole bunch of programs out that would kill to have a team as good as this year's OSU team, even while we sit here thoroughly underwhelmed and disgruntled.
 
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Fungo Squiggly said:
It's funny, because even when it's a mediocre team to us, they're still a a really good football team. Just not up to our high standards. There are a whole bunch of programs out that would kill to have a team as good as this year's OSU team, even while we sit here thoroughly underwhelmed and disgruntled.
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I can see that to some degree but would push back with all the various aspects of the game this team ranks 50-80 some odd in.

Yeah Fresno State would kill for that but having a team built to win a playoff against 3-4 top end P4 teams? Not sure 50-80 kind of gang is really all that.

4 is 4. There are other individual talents that are clearly elite.

As a group though, being middle 1/3 of a 130 team universe isn't unappreciated excellence. It's pretty much the textbook definition of mediocre/mid/meh
 
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Fungo Squiggly said:
It's funny, because even when it's a mediocre team to us, they're still a a really good football team. Just not up to our high standards. There are a whole bunch of programs out that would kill to have a team as good as this year's OSU team, even while we sit here thoroughly underwhelmed and disgruntled.
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Facts

Over the past few days several people have posted that the Buckeye D has been terrible, or words to that effect. I didn’t disagree with any of them.

What we call terrible:

Pass Efficiency Defense #5
Total defense #11
Scoring defense #13
Rushing defense #15

Horrifically inconsistent? Unquestionably
Too heavily dependent on a freshman? No doubt

Even so, you’re 100% right that a lot of fan bases would kill for a defense like this one
 
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BuckeyeNation27 said:
My brother made this point to me yesterday.........where's the talent? Obviously we have the best player in all of college (and he's better than most pros). Outside of #4, who is elite on this team? Timmons.


And I'm out of names.
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I was thinking about this today. The 27 draft isn't going to be loaded up with Buckeyes. And certainly not top end rounds ...
 
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DaddyBigBucks said:
Facts

Over the past few days several people have posted that the Buckeye D has been terrible, or words to that effect. I didn’t disagree with any of them.

What we call terrible:

Pass Efficiency Defense #5
Total defense #11
Scoring defense #13
Rushing defense #15

Horrifically inconsistent? Unquestionably
Too heavily dependent on a freshman? No doubt

Even so, you’re 100% right that a lot of fan bases would kill for a defense like this one
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The issue is that this defense has negative convexity. The downside is asymmetrical. A.K.A "picking up pennies in front of a steam roller"

Its fine until it isn't and then it's catastrophic/risk of ruin/loss generator.

Pretty much the opposite of the offense which is pretty mid most of the time but then can explode and create more value in the explosion than the consistent "meh" costs.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
The issue is that this defense has negative convexity. The downside is asymmetrical. A.K.A "picking up pennies in front of a steam roller"

Its fine until it isn't and then it's catastrophic/risk of ruin/loss generator.

Pretty much the opposite of the offense which is pretty mid most of the time but then can explode and create more value in the explosion than the consistent "meh" costs.
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This conversation really highlights the value of those advanced analytics that you cite. They root out issues that hide when you look at raw stats that strip away context.

To illustrate how well those issues can hide: some might think that your point is that the Buckeyes give up a lot of big plays. But the Buckeyes are 18th in giving up plays of 10+ yards, 6th in the country at 20+, 4th at 30+, and 3rd at 40+

Before last week, the Buckeyes were #1 in the country at 40+ yards, and in fact were the only team in the country that had yet to give up a play of 40 or more.

(Trick or Treat)

Even after Saturday the Buckeyes numbers where big plays are concerned are the kind of things that other fan bases envy

But there are still issues with WHEN they give up the little that they do give up.

The point is, that you really can wring the truth out of numbers if you can be dispassionate enough to follow wherever they lead
 
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DaddyBigBucks said:
This conversation really highlights the value of those advanced analytics that you cite. They root out issues that hide when you look at raw stats that strip away context.

To illustrate how well those issues can hide: some might think that your point is that the Buckeyes give up a lot of big plays. But the Buckeyes are 18th in giving up plays of 10+ yards, 6th in the country at 20+, 4th at 30+, and 3rd at 40+

Before last week, the Buckeyes were #1 in the country at 40+ yards, and in fact were the only team in the country that had yet to give up a play of 40 or more.

(Trick or Treat)

Even after Saturday the Buckeyes numbers where big plays are concerned are the kind of things that other fan bases envy

But there are still issues with WHEN they give up the little that they do give up.

The point is, that you really can wring the truth out of numbers if you can be dispassionate enough to follow wherever they lead
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Agreed. You have to look at the context and see what story the numbers are telling you.

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Better offenses have been able to hurt this defense and the last two games are especially alarming because that IU QB is not great at baseline and he was hurt.

USC was far and away the best offense we played (and Timmons was out but...) ~7 yards per play is catastrophic. If Timmons is the only thing keeping us from a catastrophic level performance that is pretty scary in it's own right. Doesn't jive with top 15 defense.

Season long numbers that take into account playing Ball State, Kent State and Iowa offenses can make it look like a top 10-15 kind of defense.

How they have done against better offenses makes me question that narrative.
 
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BuckeyeNation27 said:
My brother made this point to me yesterday.........where's the talent? Obviously we have the best player in all of college (and he's better than most pros). Outside of #4, who is elite on this team? Timmons.


And I'm out of names.
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McCuin is a stone cold ankle breaker. Like, completely uncoverable. The OL and QB play have been so bad this year, it’s tough to put into words.
 
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