Game6 (yes, 6): Cavs at Celtics

[Meyer]

Still disagree on the Knicks. Evreyone knocks them, but all the Celtics had was Pierce, KG, and Ray Allen. It worked. New York can get veteran free agents like Boston did with P.J. Hill, Eddie House, etc. I wouldn't call the cast around Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen a team of world-beaters. 2 stars, especially when one is the best player in the NBA, is enough to win championships IMO. And I laugh at David Stern hoping LeBron stays in Cleveland. Dude is lying right through his teeth. LeBron in New York is a money-maker for the league even if it doesn't net LeBron more money individually.

I think people don't recognize the relationship Jay-Z and LeBron have. They're best friends, the moguls of their industries, and LeBron would certainly enjoy playing in front of one his best firends/owners every night. And if Calipari is on board, even better. And if Devin Harris doesn't fit, he gets moved and they have 2 max deals as well. And Brook Lopez looked decent last year. And they'll be in Brooklyn in a few years. And they have an owner who will oblierate the salary cap if need be to win championships. New Jersey makes more sense than they're given credit for.

Chicago has one scary attraction to me and that is Derrick Rose. If Rose had signed with James' agency I'd be even more concerned. I think Chicago has a decent nucleus with Rose, but to bring a third good playr to build around they have to give up Hinrich and Deng. LeBron doesn't like Noah, and Noah is getting way too much credit for how good he is. He's a poor mans Varajao and I hope intelligent fans can recognize that.

Cleveland is close to home. He has the mansion on the hill, privacy in Akron when he wants to hang, he won't have papparazzi following him, and the Bird Rights make him more money in Cleveland....but we're behind the 8-ball on what we can do to improve based on salary cap restrictions.

Lastly, and I'd hate to use this as trump card, but we're Cleveland fans. We had the best player in the NBA, a local hometown hero, and he didn't get it done in 7 years. We folded with the best team in the NBA. God hates Cleveland sports. I expect LeBron to walk. And I won't root for him, but I won't hate him either. Same way I felt towards Manny, Thome, C.C......but on a much larger scale.

I didn't read this whole thing but Noah is better than Varejao by far. You don't even have to be intelligent to know that.

 

[tsteele316]

Still disagree on the Knicks. Evreyone knocks them, but all the Celtics had was Pierce, KG, and Ray Allen. It worked. New York can get veteran free agents like Boston did with P.J. Hill, Eddie House, etc. I wouldn't call the cast around Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen a team of world-beaters. 2 stars, especially when one is the best player in the NBA, is enough to win championships IMO. And I laugh at David Stern hoping LeBron stays in Cleveland. Dude is lying right through his teeth. LeBron in New York is a money-maker for the league even if it doesn't net LeBron more money individually.

I think people don't recognize the relationship Jay-Z and LeBron have. They're best friends, the moguls of their industries, and LeBron would certainly enjoy playing in front of one his best firends/owners every night. And if Calipari is on board, even better. And if Devin Harris doesn't fit, he gets moved and they have 2 max deals as well. And Brook Lopez looked decent last year. And they'll be in Brooklyn in a few years. And they have an owner who will oblierate the salary cap if need be to win championships. New Jersey makes more sense than they're given credit for.

Chicago has one scary attraction to me and that is Derrick Rose. If Rose had signed with James' agency I'd be even more concerned. I think Chicago has a decent nucleus with Rose, but to bring a third good playr to build around they have to give up Hinrich and Deng. LeBron doesn't like Noah, and Noah is getting way too much credit for how good he is. He's a poor mans Varajao and I hope intelligent fans can recognize that.

Cleveland is close to home. He has the mansion on the hill, privacy in Akron when he wants to hang, he won't have papparazzi following him, and the Bird Rights make him more money in Cleveland....but we're behind the 8-ball on what we can do to improve based on salary cap restrictions.

Lastly, and I'd hate to use this as trump card, but we're Cleveland fans. We had the best player in the NBA, a local hometown hero, and he didn't get it done in 7 years. We folded with the best team in the NBA. God hates Cleveland sports. I expect LeBron to walk. And I won't root for him, but I won't hate him either. Same way I felt towards Manny, Thome, C.C......but on a much larger scale.

blatently false. the celtics had leon powe before his knees went out, they had a young rondo, they had kendrick perkins, one of the best low post defenders in the nba, and they had james posey. the knicks have nobody remotely close to any of them, let alone you negate to mention you'd have two max players in ny instead of the big 3 boston had. they aren't even remotely comparable at all.

the nets can't squeeze in 2 max deals. first, nobody will take devin harris' contract. it's worse than mo williams' deal. secondly, the nets have to take on salary in return. the nets can sign a max deal and another fairly expensive FA, and nobody is going to take a big pay cut to play with lebron.

cleveland is somewhat limited with what they can do cap wise. however, the real question nobody can answer is whether or not mike brown limited what this team was capable of to the point that the talent wasn't that much of an issue.

as for manny, thome, and cc, they left for more cash plain and simple. cleveland can pay lebron more than anyone else. those situations are also not comparable.

 

[buckeyesin07]

They are so far over the cap that they still wouldn't have been able to pay a second max deal if they hadn't traded for Jamison. Right now they stand at 9 mil over the cap with Lebron's hold. I still believe Ferry made the best moves he could.

I see a lot of people complaining about Mike Brown on here and saying that he's the one who lost the series and will go down as the guy who ran Lebron out of Cleveland (something I agree with, by the way), but why is no one held accountable for keeping Brown around? We've known for years that Brown has been squandering the Cavs talent and failing to succeed in the playoffs. This year isn't anything new.

 

[billmac91]

blatently false. the celtics had leon powe before his knees went out, they had a young rondo, they had kendrick perkins, one of the best low post defenders in the nba, and they had james posey. the knicks have nobody remotely close to any of them, let alone you negate to mention you'd have two max players in ny instead of the big 3 boston had. they aren't even remotely comparable at all.

the nets can't squeeze in 2 max deals. first, nobody will take devin harris' contract. it's worse than mo williams' deal. secondly, the nets have to take on salary in return. the nets can sign a max deal and another fairly expensive FA, and nobody is going to take a big pay cut to play with lebron.

cleveland is somewhat limited with what they can do cap wise. however, the real question nobody can answer is whether or not mike brown limited what this team was capable of to the point that the talent wasn't that much of an issue.

as for manny, thome, and cc, they left for more cash plain and simple. cleveland can pay lebron more than anyone else. those situations are also not comparable.

It's not blatantly false at all accutaully. When Danny Ainge pulled that move off at the beginning of 08, all anyone said was they have the Big 3 and that's it. Unfortuantely it's the NBA, and everyone in the league is good. Kendrick Perkins developed into a nice player, and Rondo turned into a solid PG that season.

You don't think NY can put solid players around LeBron James, another max deal, and another guy say on the same level as Ray Allen?? Just because we don't know who those players would be, doesn't mean they aren't good. The entire point is New York has the flexibility to sign 2 max deals, another solid player, and fill holes from there...people are fooling tehmselves if they think it'd be LeBron, another max deal player, and a bunch of scrubs....

 

[billmac91]

I didn't read this whole thing but Noah is better than Varejao by far. You don't even have to be intelligent to know that.

Disagree....a lot. Andy is more active, a better defender, and more fluid around the rim. Noah is very active as well and brings a lot of energy passion, but I don't think he's as skilled. I don't think you're giving Varejao enough credit...he's had to play behind Z in his first few seasons, and was asked to sit behind Shaq this year. He was fluid enough to play the 4 as well as 5, and mobile enough to guard about any big man outside of Rashard Lewis that has been thrown at him. Andy is a hell of player...

 

[Ttown]

From the second half the biggest thing that jumped out me was that Cleveland lost it's composure and wouldn't/couldn't play as a team on offense or defense.
Boston did- end of story, end of game.

 

[exhawg]

I don't know how #1 can be proved true/realistic. The Knicks have more moeny to spend than they know what to do with. They can sign LeBron, Stoudamire or Bosh, and another very good player just outside of max deal range. A player who would be worth max deal money in their prime, but are entering their twilight...a guy like Nash(EDIT..Nash isn't a free agent, thought he was) Replace Nash with Ray Allen.

You're telling me a nucleus of Allen, LeBron, and Stoudamire or Bosh isn't good enough to win a championship? You can sign veterans for a minimum price like the Celtics did when they won the title with the Big 3. It's been done before by Danny Ainge..why can't it be done in NY?

The Knicks have 38 mil to spend. that is just a little more than 2 max deals. Lebron, Bosh, and 10 d league all-stars isn't going to win the NBA championship. Nash still has 2 years left on his contract so I wouldn't plan on the Suns giving him up.

 

[tsteele316]

The Knicks have 38 mil to spend. that is just a little more than 2 max deals. Lebron, Bosh, and 10 d league all-stars isn't going to win the NBA championship. Nash still has 2 years left on his contract so I wouldn't plan on the Suns giving him up.

exactly. why people don't get this is baffling. how you can compare the knicks of right now, assuming 2 max deals with boston of '08 is equally as puzzling.

 

[exhawg]

exactly. why people don't get this is baffling. how you can compare the knicks of right now, assuming 2 max deals with boston of '08 is equally as puzzling.

Boston had players to trade to bring in the big 3. All the Knicks could possibly do is sign and trade David Lee, but that would still count against the 38 mil that they have to work with. Lebron can make 17+ mil with the Cavs next year. I'd like to see him pick his coach (hopefully not Cal) and sign with the Cavs.
The problem I've heard is he wants to sign another 3 year deal, which screws whatever team he signs with the same as the Cavs the past few years. No one else wants to sign a long term deal if they don't know if Lebron will be there for the long haul.

 

[jlb1705]

I see a lot of people complaining about Mike Brown on here and saying that he's the one who lost the series and will go down as the guy who ran Lebron out of Cleveland (something I agree with, by the way), but why is no one held accountable for keeping Brown around? We've known for years that Brown has been squandering the Cavs talent and failing to succeed in the playoffs. This year isn't anything new.

Most of the accounts I've read have implied that Mike Brown was a made man with LeBron (at least until this playoff run turned sour). My impression was that the Cavs risked alienating LeBron by firing Brown before.

 

[billmac91]

exactly. why people don't get this is baffling. how you can compare the knicks of right now, assuming 2 max deals with boston of '08 is equally as puzzling.

Because Boston was coming off one of the worst seasons, maybe the worst season in franchise history. Nobody thought of Kendrick Perkins and Rajon Rondo as legitimate players next to the big 3. So if LeBron were to go to New York, and everyone says he can't win there with 10 D-Leaguers, I think history should teach a lesson. Maybe Wilson Chandler becomes a solid player, or Toney Douglas becomes a serviceable PG. I don't know, I can't see into the future. But LeBron, another max-deal player, a solid veteran, and 2 young players seem like a good line-up to me.

And all of a sudden you have the PJ Hill's and Eddie House's ready to take minor pay-cuts or veteran mimimums to play in a big city with a shot at the championship.

I don't know what is so hard to understand about that....?

 

[tsteele316]

Because Boston was coming off one of the worst seasons, maybe the worst season in franchise history. Nobody thought of Kendrick Perkins and Rajon Rondo as legitimate players next to the big 3. So if LeBron were to go to New York, and everyone says he can't win there with 10 D-Leaguers, I think history should teach a lesson. Maybe Wilson Chandler becomes a solid player, or Toney Douglas becomes a serviceable PG. I don't know, I can't see into the future. But LeBron, another max-deal player, a solid veteran, and 2 young players seem like a good line-up to me.

And all of a sudden you have the PJ Hill's and Eddie House's ready to take minor pay-cuts or veteran mimimums to play in a big city with a shot at the championship.

I don't know what is so hard to understand about that....?

again, with boston you have 3 HOF type players, not two like the knicks would have under your scenario. kendrick perkins, rondo, leon powe, and james posey, all were on the roster, and all were better than anything the knicks would have to couple with 2, not 3 like boston, 2 max deal guys.

the two aren't even close to comparable, no matter how you spin it.

 

[billmac91]

again, with boston you have 3 HOF type players, not two like the knicks would have under your scenario. kendrick perkins, rondo, leon powe, and james posey, all were on the roster, and all were better than anything the knicks would have to couple with 2, not 3 like boston, 2 max deal guys.

the two aren't even close to comparable, no matter how you spin it.

I think they are, and it doesn't feel like spin to me. It's a just a different way of acquiring the talent. Boston traded for it, the Knicks will sign it(hypothetically, if LeBron were to sign there).

And last year when the Knicks were trying to acquire Steve Nash, all anyone ever heard was the plan to pair him with LeBron and a second max-deal player. They didn't land Nash, it looked like the cap would be to small to sign 2 max players anyways, and the talk died. So I assume the talk will pick up again in regards to a player with a similar contract as Nash that they can maneuver somehow. I wonder what happens if they land Tony Parker in a trade...if they'd still be able to offer 2 max deals...i dunno.

 

[tsteele316]

I think they are, and it doesn't feel like spin to me. It's a just a different way of acquiring the talent. Boston traded for it, the Knicks will sign it(hypothetically, if LeBron were to sign there).

And last year when the Knicks were trying to acquire Steve Nash, all anyone ever heard was the plan to pair him with LeBron and a second max-deal player. They didn't land Nash, it looked like the cap would be to small to sign 2 max players anyways, and the talk died. So I assume the talk will pick up again in regards to a player with a similar contract as Nash that they can maneuver somehow. I wonder what happens if they land Tony Parker in a trade...if they'd still be able to offer 2 max deals...i dunno.

they can't. they have nothing to trade. they have to renounce the rights to all of their free agents to sign 2 max deals. bottom line is the best they can do is 2 max deal caliber players and a pile of trash. not comparable to '08 boston in any way shape or form.

 

[billmac91]

they can't. they have nothing to trade. they have to renounce the rights to all of their free agents to sign 2 max deals. bottom line is the best they can do is 2 max deal caliber players and a pile of trash. not comparable to '08 boston in any way shape or form.

It looks like the max deal number is $17,310,000. That puts 2 max deals at $34,620,000. A guy like Parker makes $12,000,000. Hypothetically, put Parker on the Knicks with the $34,620,000 already spent. That takes you to $46,620,000. Still $12,000,000 left. Toney Douglas and Wilson Chandler make a mil each so 10M left. Gallanari makes 3M so down to 7M to spend. 7M to spend on 7 players around 3 superstars and decent young players in Gallanari, Douglas, and Chandler doesn't seem crazy.

Is my math wrong here? It seems they can sign 2 max deals, another very good player, and fill it with young role players/veteran minimum guys who have the ability to get better a la Rondo and Perkins.