Game6 (yes, 6): Cavs at Celtics

[buckeyesin07]

Most of the accounts I've read have implied that Mike Brown was a made man with LeBron (at least until this playoff run turned sour). My impression was that the Cavs risked alienating LeBron by firing Brown before.

Even after last season's loss to the Magic? Wow, the Cavs can't catch a break if true--Lebron requires that they keep around a bad coach and then leaves town because he doesn't think he can win there?

 

[NJ-Buckeye]

I sucked as bad as the Cavs on my bets

 

[tsteele316]

It looks like the max deal number is $17,310,000. That puts 2 max deals at $34,620,000. A guy like Parker makes $12,000,000. Hypothetically, put Parker on the Knicks with the $34,620,000 already spent. That takes you to $46,620,000. Still $12,000,000 left. Toney Douglas and Wilson Chandler make a mil each so 10M left. Gallanari makes 3M so down to 7M to spend. 7M to spend on 7 players around 3 superstars and decent young players in Gallanari, Douglas, and Chandler doesn't seem crazy.

Is my math wrong here? It seems they can sign 2 max deals, another very good player, and fill it with young role players/veteran minimum guys who have the ability to get better a la Rondo and Perkins.

your math is off. The Knicks have $17 million in salary committed for 2010. 2 max deals puts their cap at about $51 million with the cap being around $53 million. They can't sign tony parker or anyone else but a few over the hill trash heap vets. so, once again, the knicks at best can have 2 max deal players and a collection of trash, which isn't even close to '08 boston.

 

[billmac91]

your math is off. The Knicks have $17 million in salary committed for 2010. 2 max deals puts their cap at about $51 million with the cap being around $53 million. They can't sign tony parker or anyone else but a few over the hill trash heap vets. so, once again, the knicks at best can have 2 max deal players and a collection of trash, which isn't even close to '08 boston.

thought the salary cap was agreed to be 57.7 mil next year....

I didn't realize they had 17 mil committed to the cap next year though. I'm pretty sure the cap is higher than 53M, leaving the Knicks with about 6 or 7 mil to sign 6 or 7 players with Douglas, Gallanari, Chandler, and Bill Walker the only holdovers from 2009-2010.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5099980

 

[exhawg]

thought the salary cap was agreed to be 57.7 mil next year....

I didn't realize they had 17 mil committed to the cap next year though. I'm pretty sure the cap is higher than 53M, leaving the Knicks with about 6 or 7 mil to sign 6 or 7 players with Douglas, Gallanari, Chandler, and Bill Walker the only holdovers from 2009-2010.

NBA projects 2010-11 salary cap to be $56.1M - ESPN

I saw 56 yesterday, but that still doesn't leave much room. The best bet would be if they could find someone that want's Curry's contract that expires next year for a good player so they could replace crap with someone good. Another option would be to give up on 2 max deals and try to make a sign and trade with Lee for a Parker type player and sign a Joe Johnson or Boo$er, and 1 max deal. Joe Johnson, Lee, and Bosh wouldn't be a bad crew to build around if they could swing it.

 

[tsteele316]

thought the salary cap was agreed to be 57.7 mil next year....

I didn't realize they had 17 mil committed to the cap next year though. I'm pretty sure the cap is higher than 53M, leaving the Knicks with about 6 or 7 mil to sign 6 or 7 players with Douglas, Gallanari, Chandler, and Bill Walker the only holdovers from 2009-2010.

NBA projects 2010-11 salary cap to be $56.1M - ESPN

even if it's at the rosy projection of $56.1, it doesn't change the underlying issue of NY having 2 max contract players and a pile of garbage, putting them nowhere near Boston of '08, which was your original premise.

 

[billmac91]

even if it's at the rosy projection of $56.1, it doesn't change the underlying issue of NY having 2 max contract players and a pile of garbage, putting them nowhere near Boston of '08, which was your original premise.

My premise being that the Knicks can put 3 superstars on the court together which is what has been coming out of New York for a while now. It's doable. A lot of New Yorkers are looking at Eddy Curry's contract as a moveable asset once the free agency period ends and the dust settles. Tony Parker had to come out yesterday and announce he has no intentions of wanting to be moved to New York. I don't see why the Spurs would want Eddy Curry in return, but some insiders in San Antonio believe he will be on the block due to George Hill's production. Think it would have to be a 3 team trade to move Curry to a team wanting to unload his salary for 2011-2012. I don't expect Parker to end up on the Spurs anyways, but the point is, the Knicks still have an 11 M contract to move which means a good player could come back. If San Antonio guard Tony Parker becomes available, New York Knicks could be willing trade partner

I didn't understand the whole picture on how the Knicks do it, but it makes more sense now. They sign two max deal players, and then move Eddy Curry to free up 11+ Million. Whether that is 2 good players or a guy who makes 10/11 mil, that is presumably a very good player.

As long as you put a trio of solid players on the court, I think it is similar to Boston. Again, the whole knock on Boston was they had 3 players and that was it. Well, it turns out the filled the roster with decent young players, veteran minimum guys, and it worked fine. I just wouldn't count out New York being able to entice decent players to come to New York to play with LeBron and Bosh/Wade/Stoudamire.

 

[tsteele316]

My premise being that the Knicks can put 3 superstars on the court together which is what has been coming out of New York for a while now. It's doable. A lot of New Yorkers are looking at Eddy Curry's contract as a moveable asset once the free agency period ends and the dust settles. Tony Parker had to come out yesterday and announce he has no intentions of wanting to be moved to New York. I don't see why the Spurs would want Eddy Curry in return, but some insiders in San Antonio believe he will be on the block due to George Hill's production. Think it would have to be a 3 team trade to move Curry to a team wanting to unload his salary for 2011-2012. I don't expect Parker to end up on the Spurs anyways, but the point is, the Knicks still have an 11 M contract to move which means a good player could come back. If San Antonio guard Tony Parker becomes available, New York Knicks could be willing trade partner

I didn't understand the whole picture on how the Knicks do it, but it makes more sense now. They sign two max deal players, and then move Eddy Curry to free up 11+ Million. Whether that is 2 good players or a guy who makes 10/11 mil, that is presumably a very good player.

As long as you put a trio of solid players on the court, I think it is similar to Boston. Again, the whole knock on Boston was they had 3 players and that was it. Well, it turns out the filled the roster with decent young players, veteran minimum guys, and it worked fine. I just wouldn't count out New York being able to entice decent players to come to New York to play with LeBron and Bosh/Wade/Stoudamire.

eddie curry has an $11+ million player option. That makes him basically unmovable until the trade deadline in february. Even then, you aren't going to get a team to give up anyone of real value for a summertime salary dump of $11 million.

again, no matter how you spin it, NY will be 2 max deal players and a collection of garbage. They aren't comparable to Boston of '08, nor will they ever be, no matter how much you try to ignore the good players on boston's roster when garnett and allen got there.

 

[jwinslow]

no matter how much you try to ignore the good players on boston's roster when garnett and allen got there.

Like a 2nd year Rondo.

 

[billmac91]

eddie curry has an $11+ million player option. That makes him basically unmovable until the trade deadline in february. Even then, you aren't going to get a team to give up anyone of real value for a summertime salary dump of $11 million.

again, no matter how you spin it, NY will be 2 max deal players and a collection of garbage. They aren't comparable to Boston of '08, nor will they ever be, no matter how much you try to ignore the good players on boston's roster when garnett and allen got there.

I'm not ignoring them at all...you're just missing my point. Hypothetically in a few years two other people are having this discussion about the Knicks and how they added 2 or 3 players with a bunch of garbage around them. Then another person argues Wilson Chandler and Toney Douglas aren't garbage, they were just young.

I'm not ignoring Rondo or Perkins at all. Just saying they were young at the time, and the thought was the Big 3 weren't going to be good enough to get it done. Too old, not good enough of a bench, too reliant on 3 players. Not enough ball to go around, etc....

Put 3 players around a decent Toney Douglas and Wilson Chandler, see if Gallanari becomes anything, and that could be your nucleus right there. And that garbage you keep talking about, becomes a solid core. Like Big Baby, Leon Powe, Rondo and Perkins did around Garnett, Pierce, and Allen.

 

[tsteele316]

I'm not ignoring them at all...you're just missing my point. Hypothetically in a few years two other people are having this discussion about the Knicks and how they added 2 or 3 players with a bunch of garbage around them. Then another person argues Wilson Chandler and Toney Douglas aren't garbage, they were just young.

I'm not ignoring Rondo or Perkins at all. Just saying they were young at the time, and the thought was the Big 3 weren't going to be good enough to get it done. Too old, not good enough of a bench, too reliant on 3 players. Not enough ball to go around, etc....

Put 3 players around a decent Toney Douglas and Wilson Chandler, see if Gallanari becomes anything, and that could be your nucleus right there. And that garbage you keep talking about, becomes a solid core. Like Big Baby, Leon Powe, Rondo and Perkins did around Garnett, Pierce, and Allen.

except wilson chandler and eddie curry are garbage. there is nobody on the knicks current roster that is close to comparable to rondo or perkins at the time. that doesn't even factor in guys like james posey or leon powe. and of course, you still ignore the giant elephant in the room that boston had 3 major superstars, not the 2 that the knicks would have.

so, again, the two aren't comparable at all.

 

[exhawg]

I'm not ignoring them at all...you're just missing my point. Hypothetically in a few years two other people are having this discussion about the Knicks and how they added 2 or 3 players with a bunch of garbage around them. Then another person argues Wilson Chandler and Toney Douglas aren't garbage, they were just young.

I'm not ignoring Rondo or Perkins at all. Just saying they were young at the time, and the thought was the Big 3 weren't going to be good enough to get it done. Too old, not good enough of a bench, too reliant on 3 players. Not enough ball to go around, etc....

Put 3 players around a decent Toney Douglas and Wilson Chandler, see if Gallanari becomes anything, and that could be your nucleus right there. And that garbage you keep talking about, becomes a solid core. Like Big Baby, Leon Powe, Rondo and Perkins did around Garnett, Pierce, and Allen.

Teams now have to deal with a problem that wasn't as big of a deal when the Celtics brought in the big 3 and that is Dwight Howard and the Magic. Any championship scenario had to include someone that can guard Howard 1 on 1 or the Magic 3 point shooters will pick them apart. The Cavs almost had the right formula this year except that they didn't anticipate needing to make it past Boston.
I wonder if the Blazers would look to get rid of Oden for any package? I know it's high risk, but if he could stay healthy he could be a Howard stopper.

 

[BB73]

except wilson chandler and eddie curry are garbage. there is nobody on the knicks current roster that is close to comparable to rondo or perkins at the time. that doesn't even factor in guys like james posey or leon powe. and of course, you still ignore the giant elephant in the room that boston had 3 major superstars, not the 2 that the knicks would have.

so, again, the two aren't comparable at all.

While in Chicago, Eddy Curry led the NBA in FG% one year. But I don't think he's all that and a bag of chips. Or in Eddy's case, 10,000 bags of chips.

 

[tsteele316]

While in Chicago, Eddy Curry led the NBA in FG% one year. But I don't think he's all that and a bag of chips. Or in Eddy's case, 10,000 bags of chips.

and for the last 3 years he's been an overweight slob that barely plays on one of the worst teams in the NBA.

 

[billmac91]

except wilson chandler and eddie curry are garbage. there is nobody on the knicks current roster that is close to comparable to rondo or perkins at the time. that doesn't even factor in guys like james posey or leon powe. and of course, you still ignore the giant elephant in the room that boston had 3 major superstars, not the 2 that the knicks would have.

so, again, the two aren't comparable at all.

I see...those 10 points a game Rondo averaged as a rookie had the world on the edge of their seat. Combined with the 22 wins he had as a rookie, people thought he was a future all-star.

Kendrick Perkins has been a Celtic since 2003 and his caeer wasn't anything to write home about. Wilson Chandler has been significantly more productive in his first 3 NBA seasons than Perkins was.

Toney Douglas averaged 8 points a game as a rookie in 20 mpg. Rondo averaged 10 in 29 mpg.

Being on a terrible team doesn't help your reputation. Maybe Toney Douglas and Wilson Chandler are effective when surrounded by talent.

And I'm assuming it will be 3 stars, as most New Yorkers feel they can unload Curry at some point in the off-season once the dominos have landed.