Game Thread Game Two: Ohio State 20, Akron 2 (Final)

[martinss01]

Hang your hat on Trev Alberts's comments if you like, or look at the betting lines. The line in the '02 Fiesta Bowl was around 14. There was no line in the UM/App St. game. That's because it was viewed as a scrimmage, and un-bet-able, since the score differential was thought to be basically up to UM, and how bad a shellacking they chose to lay. That's completely different from thinking that one team is superior to another team that competes at the same level, regardless of Trev's hyperbole.
If not the only, then one of the very few.

trev alberts comment is one persons opinion. we were discussing percieved notions. such as scum being the 5th best team in the nation. such as appy state being a pushover game for scum. each of these things are opinions that do not necissarily conform to reality. even if the majority of persons are of an opinion that a certain thing is so, it does not follow that it is. only that they believe it to be. perception is only reality so long as strong enough contradictory evidence does not exist.

Wasn't there a line of something like 27.5?
Just goes to show how few people knew about App State...

and how few people really knew about scum. whats this? scum overrated at the begining of the year? UNPOSSIBLE! scum dropping a game in sept? yeah, this is probably the first time that has ever happened :p

We were replacing 14 NFL draft picks. There wasn't a unit on that team that wasn't decimated. 3 of 5 on the OL, 3 of 4 on the DL, the starting QB, half the back 7, all the starting WRs, hell ... even half of the backup WRs. All drafted. The best returning players we had that anybody could even name were the place kicker and the short white guy that was out of position at CB to begin with.

whats your point? both teams in both years had trouble handling a "lesser team" after major defections. while tOSU had more and were playing a perceived tougher team, all that indicates is that tOSU was slightly better that year than scum is this year. not sure thats what is being debated here. oh and btw, that only idicates that 04 tOSU "may" have been better than 07 scum. it isn't in and of itself proof. we'll discuss that theory in a couple more weeks.

We came into 2006 with the same expectations as Michigan entering 2007. How did Troy and the boys respond? They hung 28 points on one of the MAC's best teams in a quarter (and six seconds).

is this the part where we say:
troy = henne
ginn = manningham
gonzo = who cares
robo = who cares #2
pittman = hart
06 tOSU oline = 07 scum oline
06 tOSU d = 07 scume d

im not sure if i should laugh or vomit. again, your noting expectations. people believed this years scum team would pick up where they left off last year. again, thats opinion. and well, technically they did...

What does it equate to then? Laziness? Regardless, my point was that UM/App St. was generally perceived as a much larger mismatch than Miami(Fl)/OSU in '02 was. That is clearly true even if you apply a line that didn't exist of 27.5 to the UM/App St. game. And the larger point was that no one perceived Miami and OSU as being on completely different levels in the way that most perceived[/] Michigan and Appalachian State as being on completely different levels. Regardless of why Vegas declined to put a line on this game.

whose perception are we discussing here exactly? im guessing yours because im fairly certain some of your statement doesn't fit mine. and i know for a fact that some of your statements don't fit the very vocal perceptions of a few as far as tOSU vrs. miami is conscerned. remember, we are discussing opinion here not what reality proved to be true.

My point exactly. Some in the know thought App St. would put up a decent fight. Few, if any, really believed they would win.

big difference between could and would. i personally believe that ANY team can beat ANY team ANYWHERE ANYTIME. period, and id like to go on record for having said so. if you are of a different opinion, thats fine with me.

 

[lvbuckeye]

Hang your hat on Trev Alberts's comments if you like, or look at the betting lines. The line in the '02 Fiesta Bowl was around 14. There was no line in the UM/App St. game. That's because it was viewed as a scrimmage, and un-bet-able, since the score differential was thought to be basically up to UM, and how bad a shellacking they chose to lay. That's completely different from thinking that one team is superior to another team that competes at the same level, regardless of Trev's hyperbole.

If not the only, then one of the very few.

it didn't appear on any parlay cards, but you could bet it if you wanted to. it was a special bet, and the line was TSUN -31.5... and the books lost their ass. if USC would have covered it would have been the worst opening day EVER for the books. as it stands, it was still the second worst day overall.

incidentally, TSUN's loss was the second worst point spread loss ever, and the worst since 1985 when 36 point dog Tulsa beat Texas A&M in 1985...

 

[lvbuckeye]

Scout.com (Free)

Blue and Gold Memories........by Jeff Svoboda.

Scout.com$ (Adam Jardy)

Talkin' Tressel: Thursday Edition.........article discusses Ray Small (may play) and the injuries to Pettrey and Solomon Thomas. The situation with Hines is closer to resolution.

so what's the situation with Hines?

 

[zincfinger]

trev alberts comment is one persons opinion. we were discussing percieved notions.

Exactly correct. On the OSU/Miami side, you cite one cartoon character's opinion. On the UM/Appalachian State side, I cited betting lines. The generally perceived notion was that there was a far greater chance of OSU beating Miami than of App St. beating UM.

whose perception are we discussing here exactly? im guessing yours because im fairly certain some of your statement doesn't fit mine.

That's interesting. I said "general perception", and your answer is that since it wasn't your perception, I must have been referring to my perception. But alas, no, I was referring to the general perception. As evidenced by the betting lines.

big difference between could and would. i personally believe that ANY team can beat ANY team ANYWHERE ANYTIME. period, and id like to go on record for having said so. if you are of a different opinion, thats fine with me.

Your point being what? There's no such thing as an upset? There's no such thing as a surprising outcome? Upper Arlington "could" beat the Indianapolis Colts. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be highly surprising if that did in fact happen.

it didn't appear on any parlay cards, but you could bet it if you wanted to.

Of course you could. I doubt there's anything you couldn't bet if you really wanted to. The fact that Vegas declines to put lines on these games says something about the general perception of them, that's my only point.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Of course you could. I doubt there's anything you couldn't bet if you really wanted to. The fact that Vegas declines to put lines on these games says something about the general perception of them, that's my only point.

So Vegas holds Northern Colorado in higher regard than they do App State, seeing they bothered to put a -59.5 point line on them yet didn't bother to put a line on App State...

 

[zincfinger]

So Vegas holds Northern Colorado in higher regard than they do App State, seeing they bothered to put a -59.5 point line on them yet didn't bother to put a line on App State...

Mililani, I got your point concerning the Northern Colorado/Hawaii spread. The lack of a line does not mean that bettors considered the UM/Appalachian game to be the most lop-sided game ever to be played (which I never argued). But the lack of a line is also not meaningless. Bettors did not believe a reliable line could be placed since the two teams operate at fundamentally different levels - one clearly superior, and one clearly inferior. Regardless, pick any non-Vegas line you like for the App St./UM game. It will be substantially higher than any line in the OSU/UMiami championship, or the OSU/UF championship. And that goes to my point. People were generally far more surprised that Appalachian State beat Michigan, than they were that OSU beat UMiami or that Florida beat OSU. People were probably comparably surprised at how thoroughly UF won, but not by the fact merely that they won - but that's a separate point. I'm surprised that this opinion is controversial.

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

there was no line on the game because vegas doesn't put lines on games between 1-a and 1-aa programs. though you can always find a line somewhere, there was no so-called "vegas line."

So Vegas holds Northern Colorado in higher regard than they do App State, seeing they bothered to put a -59.5 point line on them yet didn't bother to put a line on App State...

vegas doesn't concern itself with high or low regards. they set lines based on what they think will yield a 50/50 split in the betting pool and then move the line accordingly based on where the money is going. all they care about is making sure that they don't lose big because the betting pool is lopsided.

 

[zincfinger]

there was no line on the game because vegas doesn't put lines on games between 1-a and 1-aa programs.

I know that. The point of dispute between Mililani and me is that I'm saying there's a reason for that, and he, I believe, is saying that nothing can be inferred from it. Whether you agree with him or me on that relatively minor issue, it is secondary to the original point of this whole absurd digression, which was:
1) There were very few people, including informed people, who were not highly surprised that Appalachian State beat Michigan (my opinion), and
2) Appalachian State beating Michigan was a much bigger upset in almost everyone's eyes than was OSU beating The U in '02, or UF beating OSU last year (also, my opinion)

vegas doesn't concern itself with high or low regards. they set lines based on what they think will yield a 50/50 split in the betting pool and then move the line accordingly based on where the money is going. all they care about is making sure that they don't lose big because the betting pool is lopsided.

For purposes of this discussion, that amounts to the same thing. The general perception was that Hawaii would lay a colossal pounding on Northern Colorado, and it is probable that a similarly colossal pounding was not anticipated for UM vs App State.

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

I know that. The point of dispute between Mililani and me is that I'm saying there's a reason for that, and he, I believe, is saying that nothing can be inferred from it.

just from reading this statement alone, i think it can be both ways. there is a good reason why there are no vegas lines for 1-a/1-aa games. for most games, there is very little shared information (common opponents, both historically and currently) to go on. it is likely also the case that little can be inferred from having no line for a game. the average 1-a/1-aa game is a blowout. the problem is that appy state and ysu are not average 1-aa programs.

all things being equal (whatever that means), there should have been a line for the asu/ttun game. those in the know would have loved to bet on that game. again, the problem for those who make the lines is that the betting pool will probably be quite lopsided if the line is outrageously high. when you get outrageously high lines, there isn't much money put on them. and that's the goal: to have a game with a lot of money wagered on it... with a balance in the pool.

the other issue is that vegas doesn't like to move the line a lot. when the line gets crazy high, its movement can be that much greater. vegas doesn't want that.

2) Appalachian State beating Michigan was a much bigger upset in almost everyone's eyes than was OSU beating The U in '02, or UF beating OSU last year (also, my opinion)

"upset" can be defined in many ways, but i do agree that it was a bigger upset than the two games listed. the issue here is, though, that the stage for the asu/ttun game wasn't nearly as big. the size of the stage of the upset has a lot to do with the size of the overall upset. given that no 1-a team had previously lost to a 1-aa team, it's hard to argue that there hasn't been a bigger upset. then again, ysu is a very, very, very good 1-aa team. few big programs would like to face ysu. they will now have problems scheduling games against big programs.

 

[zincfinger]

just from reading this statement alone, i think it can be both ways.

Yes it can. At least it's certainly the case that you don't know what the official line would be, and in the vast majority of cases it would not approach 59.5. But it would virtually always be way above 14.

"upset" can be defined in many ways, but i do agree that it was a bigger upset than the two games listed. the issue here is, though, that the stage for the asu/ttun game wasn't nearly as big.

True, but I don't think that matter of definition comes into play here. We were debating surprise-factor alone, not significance.

 

[lvbuckeye]

there was no line on the game because vegas doesn't put lines on games between 1-a and 1-aa programs. though you can always find a line somewhere, there was no so-called "vegas line."

they put out lines on 1A vs 1AA matchups. there was no "official line," even though you could bet the game because the guys who set the lines knew the relative strengths and weaknesses of each team, and knew it would be much closer than the betting public would think. the line is set to get equal money on both sides. the winners get paid with the losers' money, minus the 10% vig. they knew that if they made an official line that the wise guys who really know what's going on would bet the house on Ap St, and the books would lose their ass.

vegas doesn't concern itself with high or low regards. they set lines based on what they think will yield a 50/50 split in the betting pool and then move the line accordingly based on where the money is going. all they care about is making sure that they don't lose big because the betting pool is lopsided.

and THAT is the reason that they didn't offer the game to everyone. it doesn't have anything to do with perception or divisions. it has to do with the directors of the Race and Sports Books wanting to keep their jobs.

 

[OmahaBeef]

Quick question, the skull session is two hours before kick-off, correct?

 

[Dryden]

Quick question, the skull session is two hours before kick-off, correct?

Bingo. Get there at least 20-30 minutes before that if you don't want to be in the rafters at St. John.

 

[OmahaBeef]

Bingo. Get there at least 20-30 minutes before that if you don't want to be in the rafters at St. John.

Thanks! I made it to a couple last year, but just forgot if it was one hour or two before kick-off. Should be fun! This will be the first game I get to attend this year, and I can't wait!



(...also, where is the will call window? Is that at the Shoe? or do I go to the Schott for that? (I'm assuming its at Shoe, on the NE side of the stadium but I just want to make sure.)

 

[BuckeyeTillIDie]

well, about the game...

I hope the weather holds off, because if it rains it is going to be a huge downpour.

I feel *kind of* sorry for the people going to the game if it gets real wet. Maybe the rain will make our field (the green part) look like a normal color, though

Anyways, those of you who are going, have a great time at the game. I hope the rain stays away!

I also hope I'll be able to watch the game. I'm getting my wisdom teeth pulled in the morning, and the rain could knock out the #%@ satellite

Go Bucks!