scooter1369
HTTR Forever.
But when its the mission of the educator to push an ideology on their students in the guise of education, its indoctrination
Upvote
0
-
Follow us on Twitter @buckeyeplanet and @bp_recruiting, like us on Facebook! Enjoy a post or article, recommend it to others! BP is only as strong as its community, and we only promote by word of mouth, so share away!
- Thread starter buckeyegrad
- Start date
Taosman
Your Cousin In New Mexxico
Your implying that there is no free will in how the education is used. While there are certainly many who take information as "truth", just as many will see if it applies in the outside world. And discount it if it doesn't "work".scooter1369;1276233; said:
Upvote
0
No free will in how the education is used? 
Hell no - they are there to LEARN, not hear opinions or the teacher's political whims.......
Hell no - they are there to LEARN, not hear opinions or the teacher's political whims.......
Upvote
0
scooter1369
HTTR Forever.
Taosman;1276241; said:
The free will of how to use something implies that the person is older than 10. Its at this age group where the kids are getting brainwashed.
Upvote
0
Taosman;1276561; said:
Actually, I had all levels of education in mind. Maxbuck's original response is what initially moved this thread to higher education, which was fine. I am glad to see others are bringing the other levels into the discussion.
Of course my own view of K-12 education is that this is where social indoctrination is at its worst. If you go back to the writings of the father of American public schools, Horace Mann, you will find that the entire reason for public education was to "Americanize" (i.e. get the Irish and German immigrants to start acting like WASPs) the nation's youth.
Upvote
0
BuckeyeInTheBoro
This space left intentionally blank
I've got my kids in a "classical education" school for just this reason. My understanding of the approach is to teach the children knowledge in elementary school; logic and reason in middle school; and application of both in high school. Anyone have any experience with classical education? It's not how I came up, but I'm impressed with it's results so far.Taosman;1284461; said:
Upvote
0
scooter1369
HTTR Forever.
BuckeyeInTheBoro;1285420; said:
Not familiar with it. I know my daughter's school does push critical thinking in science and math. Social studies not so much. They treat doctrine as law and liberal as the only way. My daughter excels in science so its a good thing, but she was chastised in first grade for supporting Bush.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Taosman
Your Cousin In New Mexxico
What is a Classical Education?
by Susan Wise Bauer (January 29, 2001)
Classical education depends on a three-part process of training the mind. The early years of school are spent in absorbing facts, systematically laying the foundations for advanced study.
In the middle grades, students learn to think through arguments. In the high school years, they learn to express themselves. This classical pattern is called the trivium. The first years of schooling are called the "grammar stage" -- not because you spend four years doing English, but because these are the years in which the building blocks for all other learning are laid, just as grammar is the foundation for language. In the elementary school years -- what we commonly think of as grades one through four -- the mind is ready to absorb information. Children at this age actually find memorization fun. So during this period, education involves not self-expression and self-discovery, but rather the learning of facts. Rules of phonics and spelling, rules of grammar, poems, the vocabulary of foreign languages, the stories of history and literature, descriptions of plants and animals and the human body, the facts of mathematics -- the list goes on. This information makes up the "grammar," or the basic building blocks, for the second stage of education.
By fifth grade, a child's mind begins to think more analytically. Middle-school students are less interested in finding out facts than in asking "Why?" The second phase of the classical education, the "Logic Stage," is a time when the child begins to pay attention to cause and effect, to the relationships between different fields of knowledge relate, to the way facts fit together into a logical framework.
A student is ready for the Logic Stage when the capacity for abstract thought begins to mature. During these years, the student begins algebra and the study of logic, and begins to apply logic to all academic subjects. The logic of writing, for example, includes paragraph construction and learning to support a thesis; the logic of reading involves the criticism and analysis of texts, not simple absorption of information; the logic of history demands that the student find out why the War of 1812 was fought, rather than simply reading its story; the logic of science requires that the child learn the scientific method.
The final phase of a classical education, the "Rhetoric Stage," builds on the first two. At this point, the high school student learns to write and speak with force and originality. The student of rhetoric applies the rules of logic learned in middle school to the foundational information learned in the early grades and expresses his conclusions in clear, forceful, elegant language. Students also begin to specialize in whatever branch of knowledge attracts them; these are the years for art camps, college courses, foreign travel, apprenticeships, and other forms of specialized training.
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=286
by Susan Wise Bauer (January 29, 2001)
Classical education depends on a three-part process of training the mind. The early years of school are spent in absorbing facts, systematically laying the foundations for advanced study.
In the middle grades, students learn to think through arguments. In the high school years, they learn to express themselves. This classical pattern is called the trivium. The first years of schooling are called the "grammar stage" -- not because you spend four years doing English, but because these are the years in which the building blocks for all other learning are laid, just as grammar is the foundation for language. In the elementary school years -- what we commonly think of as grades one through four -- the mind is ready to absorb information. Children at this age actually find memorization fun. So during this period, education involves not self-expression and self-discovery, but rather the learning of facts. Rules of phonics and spelling, rules of grammar, poems, the vocabulary of foreign languages, the stories of history and literature, descriptions of plants and animals and the human body, the facts of mathematics -- the list goes on. This information makes up the "grammar," or the basic building blocks, for the second stage of education.
By fifth grade, a child's mind begins to think more analytically. Middle-school students are less interested in finding out facts than in asking "Why?" The second phase of the classical education, the "Logic Stage," is a time when the child begins to pay attention to cause and effect, to the relationships between different fields of knowledge relate, to the way facts fit together into a logical framework.
A student is ready for the Logic Stage when the capacity for abstract thought begins to mature. During these years, the student begins algebra and the study of logic, and begins to apply logic to all academic subjects. The logic of writing, for example, includes paragraph construction and learning to support a thesis; the logic of reading involves the criticism and analysis of texts, not simple absorption of information; the logic of history demands that the student find out why the War of 1812 was fought, rather than simply reading its story; the logic of science requires that the child learn the scientific method.
The final phase of a classical education, the "Rhetoric Stage," builds on the first two. At this point, the high school student learns to write and speak with force and originality. The student of rhetoric applies the rules of logic learned in middle school to the foundational information learned in the early grades and expresses his conclusions in clear, forceful, elegant language. Students also begin to specialize in whatever branch of knowledge attracts them; these are the years for art camps, college courses, foreign travel, apprenticeships, and other forms of specialized training.
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=286
Upvote
0
BuckeyeInTheBoro
This space left intentionally blank
Taosman;1285729; said:
That's exactly the educational philosophy at my children's school. Anyone else go to a school that practiced this or have children in one?
It seems to promote education as liberation although it could easily be misunderstood as indoctrination if you only observed the younger grades.
Upvote
0
What if they're making em recite the pledge of allegience? Isn't it still a "political whim" even when we agree with it?BuckeyeMike80;1276246; said:No free will in how the education is used?
I think it's asinine for us to believe anyone can void themselves of their own ideals. If you don't like your kids teachers, move or send em to private school. Or... here's a thought... fucking parent them. (Those last remarks are not directed at you, Bmike, or anyone in particular).
Upvote
0
scarletngray
Gold Pants
Actually self-study (alone) is a form of indoctrination because you almost always study only what you want, and by whom you want.
Higher education on the other hand, despite it's shortcummings in some instances, requires you to study things, taught by people you would otherwise choose not to learn from (many times), thus forcing you to learn views, facts and perspectives that you would not learn otherwise.
Higher education on the other hand, despite it's shortcummings in some instances, requires you to study things, taught by people you would otherwise choose not to learn from (many times), thus forcing you to learn views, facts and perspectives that you would not learn otherwise.
Upvote
0
buckeyegrad;1284053; said:
I fail to see how reading, writing, math, and science is "indoctrination is at its worst". The only basic subject taught up through middle school which could be construed as indoctrination would be history/social studies, where facts are most easily manipulated.
Upvote
0