Florida State Seminoles (official thread)

[DaddyBigBucks]

Most all of the athletes put into the NFL by those two teams lately have been on the defensive side of the ball I would bet. Both programs have been so bad on offense the past 4-5 years its almost not funny.

I don't follow who puts what into the draft for the most part; so I don't know about your first point. Your second point speaks volumes though, especially about FSU.

FSU has a defensive coordinator, Mickey Andrews, that is one of the best in the business. It was when he ran the defense and Mark Richt ran the offense that FSU was scary good. Since Richt left, they have been swirling around the drain.

Bobby installed his son Jeff as his OC, and the results were so disastrous that he had to fire his own son. It was several years too late according to most around here, but he eventually go around to it a couple of years ago.

Now they have Jimbo Fisher, who has officially been dubbed BB's successor. I would not be surprised if they start to improve in the second half of this season or in 2009, whether or not Bobby retires. All of the behavior issues are taking their toll though.

The best way for Buckeye fans to understand the situation in Tallahassee is to imagine what it would be like if 2004 lasted forever (a few years would seem like forever). That's what they have here: A defense that isn't all that bad, but they get so tired of carrying the offense that they eventually collapse. It happened to us in '04. It's been the story of Seminole nation for at least the last 5 years.

EDIT:

Before last year's abomination, FSU had averaged 12.17 ppg against Miami in the previous 5 games, never scoring more than 14. They won the last two of those. Last year, the FSU-Miami game was played later in the year than it had been played since 1991 (not counting the '04 Orange Bowl that no one cared about). Arguably, both defenses had already collapsed under the (dead) weight of their respective offenses. Inarguably, the game was uglier than many of the lower scoring fiascos between the two.

In spite of their mediocrity of the last few years, they won the ACC as recently as 2005. When I first arrived here the only argument people wanted to have was whether the Big 12 or the SEC was the 2nd best conference, with the ACC obviously the creme de la creme. Now they openly lament the sorry state of their conference.

 

[BuckeyeBreeder]

Living down here in SW Florida ........there are some frustrated fans. Some feel Bobby is holding the program back, some feel that the recent behavior problems are the direct result of too many assistants ( with duties) and not enough focus on the kids off the field. You would think though with all the assistants Bobby has , he would have better grasp on his kids. But , it also falls on the kids he brings in .

I personally think Bobby is a bit out of touch with not only his kids , but the game itself. Down here it use to be the big three, FSU/ UF / UM. In whatever order you choose. Nowadays it's UF..........and the rest of the state. South Florida is making noise now, alittle ........they have beaten RichRods offense( at West Va. ) that last 2 yrs. holding his " Spread " style offense to an average of 19 points per game. Tressel even sent some assistants down here to Tampa to get some input on RichRods schemes from South Florida ( which I love).

But FSU , as long as Bobby is still around will still be a dissapointment to FSU fans. Yea , he'll be in the history books in all . But there comes a time when everything you have accomplished stands to be threatend by the lasting bad memories you continue to rack up in the present. I believe a similar situation is happening in Happy Valley with Joe Pa.

 

[Jaxbuck]

The best way for Buckeye fans to understand the situation in Tallahassee is to imagine what it would be like if 2004 lasted forever (a few years would seem like forever). That's what they have here: A defense that isn't all that bad, but they get so tired of carrying the offense that they eventually collapse. It happened to us in '04. It's been the story of Seminole nation for at least the last 5 years.

Splitting hairs but given all the off field stuff I would say its a 5 year stretch of our 1999, which was indeed a living hell.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Splitting hairs but given all the off field stuff I would say its a 5 year stretch of our 1999, which was indeed a living hell.

Perhaps...

But lest we forget, we had a bit of off-field stuff in '04 as well. Nothing like '99 or the FSU stuff (which frankly is the same as it ever was down here).

But Tressel managed to clear things up and now the off-field stuff happens less frequently, and is caught in-house before it is discovered elsewhere.

With B. Bowden, his life-long tendency to be soft on violators (he was harsher on Preston Parker than he's been in a long time) has produced predictable results.

 

[BB73]

With B. Bowden, his life-long tendency to be soft on violators (he was harsher on Preston Parker than he's been in a long time) has produced predictable results.

Didn't Parker get suspended for the first two games? That sounds fairly harsh until one realizes that those games are against Western Carolina and Chattanooga. Those two games were placed at the top of the schedule after the academic scandal caused a boatload of players to miss the first couple of games this season.

Maybe FSU can peramanently schedule two cupcakes at the start of the season, so they can annually survive the early suspensions without a defeat.

 

[Gatorubet]

Here is a summary of the report FSU submitted to the NCAA. (From Nole board - thanks to Gatorguy for the entirety of the post)

"Thought it would help with the discussion. Please note there is no editorial comment from me in this.
It is just a summary of the report that was sent to the NCAA.

Summer 2006
When the report says academic improprieties started

Late March 2007
Monk asked one student athlete to enter answers on a test of another
After entering the answers, that student notified his academic adviser of what he did
The academic adviser notified Meleney who notified Laughlin
The info was forwarded to appropriate supervisory personnel
Upon receipt of the info, TK asked Office of Audit Services to review incident to see if isolated or widespread

April 3 2007
Monk put on administrative leave

Spring 2007
Audit Services begins investigating focusing on Monk and interview 31 athletes she had
regular interaction with. Comments from one of them led them to begin looking into the
tutor and the online course. They decided to identify all student athletes that had enrolled in
the course from Spring 2006 to Summer 2007. 146 were identified and 118 interviewed, primarily
those still with eligibility or living in Tallahassee. The Compliane Group (Karpinski, Smrt) were
retained to impartially analyze the report and began follow up interviews.

June, July, August 2007
The interviews of the 118 student athletes take place

July 5 2007
Monk resigns

On 27th of July of 2007
At Dave Hart's direction, Brian Battle of AD compliance department has conversation with
VP Price at NCAA about ongoing investigation

Early September
Audit staff completes rough draft of preliminary review and school begins withholding athletes from
competition who were involved with Monk or Tutor.
As the final draft was being completed and circulated to folks in the University, the institution
realized that an additional review of the information was needed by people with more experience
in NCAA legislation. During this time discussions were held with Provost Abele, Faculty Athletics
Representative Beckham, General Counsel Steffens, and members of athletics department.
The review became more formalized and the Univ formed a committee to coordinate additional actions
Committee was composed of Beckham, Steffens, Abele and Hart. Minnix and Battle of the Ath Dpt compliance
staff assissted the committee.The Compliance Group (Karpinski, Smrt) were retained to impartially
analyze the report and began follow up interviews.

On 26th of September of 2007
Letter from TK to NCAA VP Price indicating preliminary review is complete
Shortly thereafter, Smrt (TCG) contacted NCAA VP Price and it was determined the investigatiion
would continue and FSU would periodically update the NCAA Enforcement Staff. And it was
determined the Enforcement Staff would be involved in additional interviews.

October of 2007
The institution submits restoration requests for 22 of the initial 23 athletes that had been impacted
The University had discussions with the NCAA's Student Athlete Reinstatement group about information in
these restoration requests. Subsequent to the SAR groups initial decision in late October, the primary
focus in Nov and Dec was on numerous additional interviews that resulted in withholding an extensive
number of additional athletes from competition.
During interviews with the original 23 by Minnix and Karpinski (TCG) some of the athletes said that not every
one that cheated had admitted to it. This led to meetings/interviews with those that had taken the online
course but had not admitted anything. Only one more came clean.
The University's information technology group helped Provost Abele do an extensive analysis of course
results. The analysis helped the committee identify students for further interviews that had not admitted
to anything previously. Some athletes eligibility was suspended during this time and others not based
on meetings of the committee to review all the information. Because of the complexity of the whole thing
on Oct 24 they had a teleconference with NCAA VP Price who's advice was instrumental in giving the
committee direction for their decision making process and led to a declaration the course had been
compromised. The committee met in person to discuss this with Price on Nov 12 in conjunction with
meetings with the SAR.

November and December 2007
The NCAA Enforcement Staff was involved in additional interviews.
Much of the efforts of the University and The Compliance Group during October and November were
focused on submitting requests for restoration of eligibility for the impacted athletes. This activity
was concurrent with the further investigation.
Monk and the tutor were reinterviewed on Nov 7th (Monk) and 8th (tutor), with the NCAA enforcement staff.
In January the University and NCAA staff interviewed Monk again and the NCAA alone interviewed the
tutor.
(Not clear when) the University interviewed nearly all the AASS staff to determine who knew what within
the AASS and Athletic Dept about what Monk and tutor were doing.
After getting the NCAA to agree to lessen potential penalties to encourage more athletes to come forward,
December interviews with 75 more athletes produced 39 more athletes that said they cheated.
Meleney told on January 8 his contract would not be renewed

The Players
Hart is (was) the AD
Minnix is the Sr Assoc AD and reports to Hart with additional reporting to Steffens, FSUs general counsel
Battle is Assoc AD and reports to Minnix
AASS is Athletic Academic Support Services
Mark Meleney is director of AASS and reports to Hart and to Karen Laughlin Dean of Undergrad Studies
Brenda Monk was hired in 2000 as Asst Director of Educational Services and reported to Meleney
The Tutor was a grad student hired as a student and was asked to resign when they learned of the problems
Karpinkski and Smrt work for The Compliance Group a firm that specializes in NCAA matters hired by FSU

Brenda Monk
Directed one athlete to enter answers she provided for a test for another athlete.
Provided answers to athletes during tests.
Developed a notebook with prior exam questions and answers
She allowed athletes to use this notebook to take tests
Typed papers for students.
Provided assistance on papers to students.
She had access to athletes e-mail, ids and passwords that would allow her to do things
like get answers entered on tests without them there.
She assisted in writing and typing outlines for papers

The Tutor
Several athletes said it was common knowledge he would help with the tests
Some said they got an answer and some said he gave nearly all the answers during the tests
Some athletes said they scheduled study sessions with the tutor and he gave them the answers then
Some athletes said they were aware of when the tutor was in the lab and would go at those times for tests.
Some said that he corrected answers for them even without asking
Tutor said he got NCAA training twice a year
Tutor said tests were open book and he believed that his assistance was legal
Tutor said some athletes asked him for answers and that an AASS advisor or someone higher up asked
him to give answers. He stated that AASS advisors (plural) knew he was giving answers.
Tutor also said that learning specialists that worked for Monk encouraged him to provide answers.

AASS
AASS Advisors (plural) frequently recommended the course, purportedly because it met three
course requirements and could be taken online allowing athletes flexibility for travel and practice.
Meleney, director of AASS, did not adequately review information that Monk was typing papers as
was reported to him by at least two advisors. He questioned Monk, but undertook no further
inquiries and did not forward the information to FSUs compliance staff.
AASS Advisors not only suggested the course, but directed the athletes to work with "the tutor"
AASS Advisors encouraged or arranged for "the tutor" to be present when some athletes took tests
AASS did not effectively monitor the course, even though: 140 students took it in five semesters, grades
in the course were not consistent with grades the athletes got in other courses, AASS knew
Monk was checking out a binder to athletes with the exam questions and answers
AASS advisors deny directing athletes to get with "the tutor" but a number of different athletes say
that they did. AASS advisors deny knowing the tutor was giving athletes, but athletes believe they did
based on conversations.

The Course
In the spring 2007 semester, 62 of the 198 students enrolled in this course were athletes.
FSU notes that there was confusion about whether the course was open or closed book and the
structure of the course facilitated the opportunity for cheating. The course was further flawed
because the tests did not change from semester to semester.
Almost all the 60 to 70 students taking the course in spring 2007 were making an A
This post was edited on 7/12 9:59 AM by GatorGuyDallas"


I dunno, but it looks to me like three missed games won't cut it as a penalty. I am a Gator homer, but this looks like the dreaded lack of institutional control.

Maybe Bill can give us some Nole insight into the thinking over there about the liklihood of penalties.

 

[scooter1369]

On the same scale as shooting your age in golf, apparently Bowden and JoePa are trying to commit as many infractions as their age.

These two old geezers will be the lunatics in the retirement home, racing around on wheelchairs still trying to one up each other.

 

[Gatorubet]

nolesports.com | Tallahassee Democrat | Covering FSU football and Seminoles sports at Florida State University in Tallahassee, FL


FSU easily whipped the Terrapins in all aspects that matter. The offensive
line protected Ponder who completed 19 of 24 passes for 143 yards, and as
importantly, did not get picked off against zone coverage as he did in losses
to Boston College, Wake Forest and Georgia Tech. FSU revived its running
game with 167 yards on 40 carries.

The Seminoles also shook their slow start blues by making big plays on defense
that included Derek Nicholson's recovery of a fumble and a return 22 yards for a
touchdown that put FSU up 14-0. By game's end, FSU got to Maryland quarterback
Chris Turner six times for a sack with Everette Brown accounting for 37. And FSU
held Maryland to 149 yards. All that should have Mickey Andrews' group feeling better,
but maybe not enough to shout:
"Bring on the Gators."

 

[osugrad21]

Rivals Free

Florida State has started referring to itself as "The Florida State University"

 

[Brutus1]

STFU


Err, I mean TFSU.

 

[OregonBuckeye]

Scout.com: 2009 FSU Football Schedule

This comes on the heels of FSU playing the nation?s eighth-tougest schedule in 2008

How in the hell did they play the eighth toughest schedule in the country with TWO D-1AA teams?

 

[Gatorubet]

STFU


Err, I mean TFSU.

That's tSTFU to you.

 

[NoleintheBus]

I'm actually glad Andrews is leaving, as i think we need new blood. Our D has not been anything special in eons. If it weren't for Myron Rolle being an absolute genius, i wouldn't have heard a single mention about FSU's D this year. We need to channel the late 90's when we had players who knew how to attack. The kind of team that ate the Buckeyes lunch in the sugar bowl. We had Germaine bleeding at the mouth and the bucks never knew what hit them. I think Andrews has lost that edge. That's why i want LJ...he will hit and i'd rather have a player looking to break up a play first than go for an INT and whiff, giving up a huge play. Every kid wants to be Deion, but he is once-in-a-lifetime, as he never missed.

 

[billmac91]

I'm actually glad Andrews is leaving, as i think we need new blood. Our D has not been anything special in eons. If it weren't for Myron Rolle being an absolute genius, i wouldn't have heard a single mention about FSU's D this year. We need to channel the late 90's when we had players who knew how to attack. The kind of team that ate the Buckeyes lunch in the sugar bowl. We had Germaine bleeding at the mouth and the bucks never knew what hit them. I think Andrews has lost that edge. That's why i want LJ...he will hit and i'd rather have a player looking to break up a play first than go for an INT and whiff, giving up a huge play. Every kid wants to be Deion, but he is once-in-a-lifetime, as he never missed.

I'm going to disagree on this post.....good first post though.

As an FSU grad myself, 2005, I've remained faithful to Mickey. The defense hasn't been as dominate as the 90's squads, but then again, the 90's squads had great offenses.

Through the Rix, Sexton, McPherson, Xavier Lee, Weatherford messes, the defense has remained solid. Not great, but good enough to keep FSU bowl eligible. Which is saying a lot because Jeff Bowden drove this team straight into the ground to the point where Fisher is just getting the thing turned around.

And through those years, FSU was not able to recruit like it used to. And secondary depth is pretty brutal right now at safety. Anyways, its exciting to see LJ in a recruiting battle with FSU and tOSU for me....I'm hopeful he chooses the Bucks.

 

[NoleintheBus]

I'm going to disagree on this post.....good first post though.

As an FSU grad myself, 2005, I've remained faithful to Mickey. The defense hasn't been as dominate as the 90's squads, but then again, the 90's squads had great offenses.

Through the Rix, Sexton, McPherson, Xavier Lee, Weatherford messes, the defense has remained solid. Not great, but good enough to keep FSU bowl eligible. Which is saying a lot because Jeff Bowden drove this team straight into the ground to the point where Fisher is just getting the thing turned around.

And through those years, FSU was not able to recruit like it used to. And secondary depth is pretty brutal right now at safety. Anyways, its exciting to see LJ in a recruiting battle with FSU and tOSU for me....I'm hopeful he chooses the Bucks.

I have to disagree. While the 90's team had more offensive weapons, i believe a great defense helps make an offense look better, and we have not had that. And when you slip from great to just good, fans will demand accountability. I'm not saying Andrews should be fired, i'm saying i'm looking forward to new blood.

No coach can keep it going forever. Not Bowden, not Tressel, not Urban (i think). Kids will eventually stop connecting...it's the nature of college football. FSU has slipped in all phases (and i know many that want Fisher to take over for Bowden tomorrow). We have gone from Elite to somewhere below that, and that is not good enough for me...not with the talent in our home state. I'm positive after years of living here that Buckeye fans would have the same reaction against Heacock if the D was just good....oh wait, you guys want him fired after a single loss even if the D is top 5 EVERY year. So please don't set a double standard.