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Duke Blue Devils (that rat faced scumbag)

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Duke's 2009 & 2010 classes are shaping up to be on the level of those others... They're landing big-time athletes and some size that should help them get back in the thick of things with Roy boy, who's been a recruiting machine...
 
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buckeyesin07;1406674; said:
Not sure what you mean by this--Coach K currently has 7 McDonald's All-Americans on his team:

Henderson
Scheyer
Singler
Smith
Paulus
L. Thomas
E. Williams

He's got plenty to work with--just about every coach in the country would give his right arm to have talent like that.
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Outside of Henderson, I don't see one elite college athlete. Singler is a great player, but not an amazing athlete.

Why does Duke live and die by the three seemingly every year?? I'd say because they lack players who can attack the hoop and create easy shots.

Coach K has decided he doesn't want 1 and done players which is fine. He recruits 4 year players, and coaches the [censored] out of them. Duke plays the best pressure defense in a half court set every single year. It's unreal how many steals and 5 second calls they get. They suffocate you.

Yet that aggressive defense, doesn't translate offensively. They don't attack the hoop, they don't have athletic big men, and they're a one dimensional perimeter shooting team.

If Coach K had a Ty Lawson, Darren Collison, Johnny Flynn I think Duke would be pretty amazing. Their 5 star, Mac D All-americans are great role players that should compliment guys who can create. Nolan Smith and Greg Paulus just don't do that.

I could be wrong, and don't feel like researching it, but I believe Jason Williams wa stehir PG in their last title season. One of the fastest end to end guards in college history who could penetrate whenever he wanted too. Haven't seen that in a while at Duke....
 
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DeMarcus Nelson was pretty athletic, too, but I think billmac has pretty much nailed it.

Jason Williams was a freakish athlete, but they haven't had one like him since (Nelson was pretty much a bricklayer, and JW had a nice shot). Maybe Corey Maggette soured Coach K on the great athlete. :wink2:

I have a bit of a soft spot for Dook since my kid went there. But I have to admit they've kind of skated on reputation over the past few years. Very well-coached, but limited from the standpoints of height and athleticism. Nobody's idea of a final 4 team this year, for sure.

Oh, BTW, there is nobody on the Dook team for whom I'd willingly trade Evan Turner.
 
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billmac91;1408516; said:
Outside of Henderson, I don't see one elite college athlete. Singler is a great player, but not an amazing athlete.

Why does Duke live and die by the three seemingly every year?? I'd say because they lack players who can attack the hoop and create easy shots.

Coach K has decided he doesn't want 1 and done players which is fine. He recruits 4 year players, and coaches the [censored] out of them. Duke plays the best pressure defense in a half court set every single year. It's unreal how many steals and 5 second calls they get. They suffocate you.

Yet that aggressive defense, doesn't translate offensively. They don't attack the hoop, they don't have athletic big men, and they're a one dimensional perimeter shooting team.

If Coach K had a Ty Lawson, Darren Collison, Johnny Flynn I think Duke would be pretty amazing. Their 5 star, Mac D All-americans are great role players that should compliment guys who can create. Nolan Smith and Greg Paulus just don't do that.

I could be wrong, and don't feel like researching it, but I believe Jason Williams wa stehir PG in their last title season. One of the fastest end to end guards in college history who could penetrate whenever he wanted too. Haven't seen that in a while at Duke....
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I see your point, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I understand that McD's All-Americans may be an imperfect proxy for how good a recruit is, but it's not a bad one. I think on a year-in, year-out basis, there are less than 5 Div. I college basketball coaches that wouldn't trade recruiting classes with Coach K.
 
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buckeyesin07;1408889; said:
I see your point, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I understand that McD's All-Americans may be an imperfect proxy for how good a recruit is, but it's not a bad one. I think on a year-in, year-out basis, there are less than 5 Div. I college basketball coaches that wouldn't trade recruiting classes with Coach K.
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You're missing the point....the 5 star All-americans they are signing aren't top flight athletes. Just b/c they played in the McDonald's All American game doesn't make them elite athletes in their sport...

-It hasn't added quickness or 8 inches to Greg Paulus's vertical...
-Kyle Singler isn't any more athletic or physically imposing underneath the hoop for playing in that game....hell of a shot though
-Brian Zoubek wasn't made an athletic big man overnight by playing in it (not actually sure if he played in it or not)
-Nolan Smith's handle and shot weren't improved by playing in the game
-Jon Scheyer isn't attacking the rim and finishing plays at the hoop since being named a Mac D's All American
-Lance Thomas is easily more athletic than Trevor Booker...only because Lance played in the McDonald's All American game though
-Taylor King was an amazing athlete at Duke, he just choose to live 30 feet away and launch 3's instead.

The number of McDonald's All-Amaericans Dule recruits is impressive, but they aren't the top level athletes at the game. Those guys are the 1 & done type players, and Coach K has decided he'd rather recruit the 4 year guy and build an experienced team. That recruiting approach is great for successful seasons, but they've had trouble more athletic teams since the departure of Jason Williams, Shane Battier, Mike Dunleavy, Carlos Boozer, Chris Duhon, etc....
 
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With the ability that Duke has to recruit basically whoever they want, Coach K is doing a poor job in recent years of recruiting. Duke has really been lacking in big men for most of this decade, yet they haven't brought in a 1 & done big man (while OSU has had 2 already and possibly 3 after this season ends). Honestly, I would rather have Thad Matta as OSU's head coach than Coach K, and it's not just because of the recruiting philosophy.
 
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DZ83CK;1409240; said:
With the ability that Duke has to recruit basically whoever they want, Coach K is doing a poor job in recent years of recruiting. Duke has really been lacking in big men for most of this decade, yet they haven't brought in a 1 & done big man (while OSU has had 2 already and possibly 3 after this season ends). Honestly, I would rather have Thad Matta as OSU's head coach than Coach K, and it's not just because of the recruiting philosophy.
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Come on now. I like Thad (as if he cares really) as the head coach at Ohio State, but seriously? Over Coach K?

Coach K is a legend. Matta may get there but come back to me in 30 years.

:shake:
 
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DZ83CK;1409240; said:
With the ability that Duke has to recruit basically whoever they want, Coach K is doing a poor job in recent years of recruiting. Duke has really been lacking in big men for most of this decade, yet they haven't brought in a 1 & done big man (while OSU has had 2 already and possibly 3 after this season ends). Honestly, I would rather have Thad Matta as OSU's head coach than Coach K, and it's not just because of the recruiting philosophy.
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As a few have stated in this thread, Coach K isn't going for one-and-done players, thus making it difficult to have the bigs that many top schools have.

I'd take Thad's recruiting over Coach K's as it stands right now.. but I'm not sure there's a better coach at the college basketball level than Coach K.
 
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Dook led Wake 41-19 in the first half but the Deacons have closed to within 2 points with under 8 minutes left at Cameron.
 
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billmac91;1408937; said:
You're missing the point....the 5 star All-americans they are signing aren't top flight athletes. Just b/c they played in the McDonald's All American game doesn't make them elite athletes in their sport...

-It hasn't added quickness or 8 inches to Greg Paulus's vertical...
-Kyle Singler isn't any more athletic or physically imposing underneath the hoop for playing in that game....hell of a shot though
-Brian Zoubek wasn't made an athletic big man overnight by playing in it (not actually sure if he played in it or not)
-Nolan Smith's handle and shot weren't improved by playing in the game
-Jon Scheyer isn't attacking the rim and finishing plays at the hoop since being named a Mac D's All American
-Lance Thomas is easily more athletic than Trevor Booker...only because Lance played in the McDonald's All American game though
-Taylor King was an amazing athlete at Duke, he just choose to live 30 feet away and launch 3's instead.

The number of McDonald's All-Amaericans Dule recruits is impressive, but they aren't the top level athletes at the game. Those guys are the 1 & done type players, and Coach K has decided he'd rather recruit the 4 year guy and build an experienced team. That recruiting approach is great for successful seasons, but they've had trouble more athletic teams since the departure of Jason Williams, Shane Battier, Mike Dunleavy, Carlos Boozer, Chris Duhon, etc....
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Your original point was that we should all be amazed at what Coach K gets out of the talent he has. That statement necessarily implies that he has sub-par talent, at least relative to the record his teams have year in and year out. I disagree with your premise, as I think Duke year in and year out recruits better than all but probably UNC; thus, if anything, they underachieve, record- and NCAA tournament result-wise, relative to their recruiting classes. You're now attempting to shift the focus of your argument away from an objective standard of recruiting such as McD's All-Americans to claiming that Duke doesn't recruit what you term as "athletes" an argument premised upon, at best, an amorphous concept which you don't attempt to define.
 
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