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Do you think Mark McGwire should be in the Hall of Fame?

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Do you think Mark McGwire should be in the Hall of Fame?

  • Yes, he deserves it

    Votes: 26 41.3%

  • No, He lied and should be treated like Pete Rose

    Votes: 30 47.6%

  • I don't have an opinion

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I really don't care

    Votes: 7 11.1%
  • Total voters
    63
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks;695341; said:
I believe anyone who thinks there is such thing as a sport that is clean as the driven snow is fooling themselves.
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Now that I agree with. I don't think they are either unless we start talking about parentless "t" ball.
But I do believe we should strive to make them so even in the face of today's players, coaches, unions,and TV networks.
 
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BKB's
Waterloo-Cover.jpg
 
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BucyrusBuckeye;695345; said:
Now that I agree with. I don't think they are either unless we start talking about parentless "t" ball.
But I do believe we should strive to make them so even in the face of today's players, coaches, unions,and TV networks.
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Eh, I dont have the desire to worry about that stuff. As long as people aren't throwing games for money, I'm good. I just wanna see someone score some points.
 
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An interesting question to me is how many extra home runs juiced players ended up hitting because they were juiced. There is, of course, no real way to measure that, because even if you count the fact that some of the home runs went "just" over the fence versus ones that were crushed, you can't take into account how the player was pitched differently once they started hitting more home runs, where they were in the lineup versus where they would have been, etc. An example: Ken Caminiti, who admitted juicing, went from 13, 13, 13, 18 to 26, 40, 26, 29 once he started hitting the needles...that's an increase of about 13-18 per season or so.

Of course if McGwire and Bonds have juiced, who knows how many extra they did or didn't hit, but I think the increase in Caminiti's numbers indicates there is a tangible benefit, unless hitting all those extra home runs had absolutely nothing to do with extra muscle mass and accelerated recovery generated by steroids, which I would find hard to believe.
 
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The Man;695285; said:
He should not be in, more so because he wasn't a great baseball player. He was completely one dimensional, HR or nothing mostly. Was below average when playing 1B and had no base running ability. When comparing players I could name at least 25 position players that are still playing that are far better than McGwire ever was. Obviously I vote no.
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I find it hard to believe you have read this thread, or done some research and can still make comments like these. I know I am repeating myself and providing facts, that evidently dont mean anything, but his FP is .993....there arent too many better than that. In fact, a lot of the 1B in the HOF have terrible FP. McGwire was well above average in the field. It isnt like he was a stiff, hell he came up as a 3B and even played some games there. A guy named Carney Lansford needed to be on the field. I am starting to think the "he was bad defensively" shit is killing credibility. It sounds like something Skip BAyless would say. And a bad baserunner?? lol...come on. I would love to see some examples here. I mean first you say, he either hit a HR or made an out...so he didnt round the bases properly after hitting a HR?

And once again, the one dimensional agrument is awful and I am tired of explaining it. Pete Rose was one dimensional, TY Cobb, Tris Speaker, etc. hell, Ozzie Smith got in b/c of defense alone....OS definitely one dimensional. Singles hitters hit singles and rely on McGwire to get them across the plate.

You know what, I am officialy done with this topic. Some people need to be more educated on the on-field standards of the HOF. MM has better numbers or atleast equal to the guys already enshrined, and he accomplished them in record breaking fashion (less AB/games--by a lot)

If you think his alleged steroid use should keep him out, fine, I have no problem with that......but to say he was a bad babaserunner (lol) or a poor fielder (lol) or all he could do is hit HRs is 100% incorrect. All Ozzie could do is field and throw, all Cobb could do is hit singles, that is what thery were. There is plenty of data showing he was a good defensive player and his hitting numbers are phenomenal. I just dont see how you can argue with numbers.....it would be like me arguing that the Buckeyes arent 12-0.

anyway, Merry Christmas...
 
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Bucklion;695504; said:
Of course if McGwire and Bonds have juiced, who knows how many extra they did or didn't hit, but I think the increase in Caminiti's numbers indicates there is a tangible benefit, unless hitting all those extra home runs had absolutely nothing to do with extra muscle mass and accelerated recovery generated by steroids, which I would find hard to believe.
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I'm sure he's been mentioned on this thread, but Brady Anderson came out of nowhere with a 50 homer season and never got close to that point ever again.

I honestly think that the roids McGwire took ended his career earlier than it probably would have naturally ended.

That's just my opinion of course.
 
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BuckeyeMike80;695733; said:
I honestly think that the roids McGwire took ended his career earlier than it probably would have naturally ended.
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I don't know about this statement. He was a pretty injury prone guy accept for the 50+ plus run. If anything, I think the roids probably kept him healthy enough to have those big years that got him his Hall credentials.
 
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tyrus;695685; said:
I find it hard to believe you have read this thread, or done some research and can still make comments like these. I know I am repeating myself and providing facts, that evidently dont mean anything, but his FP is .993....there arent too many better than that. In fact, a lot of the 1B in the HOF have terrible FP. McGwire was well above average in the field. It isnt like he was a stiff, hell he came up as a 3B and even played some games there. A guy named Carney Lansford needed to be on the field. I am starting to think the "he was bad defensively" shit is killing credibility. It sounds like something Skip BAyless would say. And a bad baserunner?? lol...come on. I would love to see some examples here. I mean first you say, he either hit a HR or made an out...so he didnt round the bases properly after hitting a HR?

And once again, the one dimensional agrument is awful and I am tired of explaining it. Pete Rose was one dimensional, TY Cobb, Tris Speaker, etc. hell, Ozzie Smith got in b/c of defense alone....OS definitely one dimensional. Singles hitters hit singles and rely on McGwire to get them across the plate.

You know what, I am officialy done with this topic. Some people need to be more educated on the on-field standards of the HOF. MM has better numbers or atleast equal to the guys already enshrined, and he accomplished them in record breaking fashion (less AB/games--by a lot)

If you think his alleged steroid use should keep him out, fine, I have no problem with that......but to say he was a bad babaserunner (lol) or a poor fielder (lol) or all he could do is hit HRs is 100% incorrect. All Ozzie could do is field and throw, all Cobb could do is hit singles, that is what thery were. There is plenty of data showing he was a good defensive player and his hitting numbers are phenomenal. I just dont see how you can argue with numbers.....it would be like me arguing that the Buckeyes arent 12-0.

anyway, Merry Christmas...
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have you ever played baseball before? His FP is irrelevant, he couldn't get to balls that most 1B could, meaning he gave the other team hits/extra at-bats. He was immobile. Is it hard to catching the ball while standing on the bag? If you believe FP is the determining factor on how good a 1B he was the you are the one to be laughed at. He was a white Mo Vaughn at 1B. MM was a one dimentional player, I'm not sure how you can argue against that. What did he do that was HOF worthy except hit HR's? If he is in so is Sammy Sosa, and Sammy actually had some SB's on his resume.
 
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I fucking can't stand Sammy fucking Sosa. I hate his little hop, I hate his banging his chest, I hate his corked bats, I hate his moon shots, I hate the way he runs out to the field, I hate the way he hops, and I really hate it whe he hops. I do like it when he hops and the ball stays in the park, but that's about it. I hate, hate, hate, that fuckin guy.

And he's got hall numbers, and it pisses me off. Fuck Sammy Sosa. But, he's still getting in the hall... or at least he should, all things being equal.
 
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