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Defense in this era?

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cdiddy70

Hall of Fame
It seems like teams with overachieving defenses that are to be admired have one thing in common.
Their offense is extremely run heavy and generally suck.
We wish we had the D Minnesota, Wisky, Iowa, Illinois, Kentucky or even Michigan have.
We yearn for their DC’s and blast ours but to what end.
What is the dynamic besides TOP in play here.
Is our defense that bad or is the style of offense we play (and need to play to win a title) not conducive to a statistically highly ranked D.
Ever sense Bama went to a spread and incorporated tempo that have struggled to stop teams even with absurd talent.
Georgia couldn’t stop our offensive without most our skill position weapons.
They had a dominant D last year but also 5 first rd draft picks.
Our 2019 team came close to great O and D.
The bowls season and especially the CFP has been devoid of defense.
My thesis is if you have a high voltage offense capable of winning a title it is unlikely you will have a statistically dominant D.
It isn’t 2002 anymore.
We need to get better. Mainly in terms of talent especially in the secondary.
But we aren’t as far off as it seems.
It appears that if you want a great D in terms of ranking you need a plodding low voltage offense. And you aren’t winning crap with that.
 
Looking at the last 10 national champions, I have a hunch that it’s not so much scheme or playcalling…

But rather:
  1. Minimum sufficient game changing talent at each level of the defense (eg you need one game changer at each level)
  2. battle tested enough throughout the season to not be fearful / tentative at the end of the season
  3. having go to set ups on critical third downs and game changing plays
Plenty of teams in the last decade won titles with a defense that (in the aggregate) were similar to ours this year.

But they had more of #1-3 above than this team does.

or in rare occasions they were just so incredible on offense or faced a team that was so lacking in #1-3 that it didn’t matter (‘19 LSU).
 
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All of those Defenses look better on paper because those running games shorten the game for them by keeping the clock running.

What do all of those Defenses have in common? They got skull fucked by Ryan Days Offense. You live by the sword. All there is to it. It's extremely difficult to be great on both sides of the ball in this football Era. Be great at one side of the ball and play complimentary ball on the other. That's all you can ask for anymore.

Edit: To add to that I really think Knowles is the right guy and his system will get the job done eventually. They not only have to be good on Defense but not fuck the Offense in the process. To match up with our Offense the Defenses only job is to get the ball back, preferably without the other team scoring, as many times as possible and they are going to get extremely tired with the athletes we keep on Offense. That's the current Buckeye philosophy
 
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Merih said:
Looking at the last 10 national champions, I have a hunch that it’s not so much scheme or playcalling…

But rather:
  1. Minimum sufficient game changing talent at each level of the defense (eg you need one game changer at each level)
  2. battle tested enough throughout the season to not be fearful / tentative at the end of the season
  3. having go to set ups on critical third downs and game changing plays
Plenty of teams in the last decade won titles with a defense that (in the aggregate) were similar to ours this year.

But they had more of #1-3 above than this team does.

or in rare occasions they were just so incredible on offense or faced a team that was so lacking in #1-3 that it didn’t matter (‘19 LSU).
Click to expand...
We have
  • JTT at first level
  • Chambers at 2nd level
  • 3rd level ?????
Maybe Styles is that guy at level 3
 
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RuGettinIt said:
We have
  • JTT at first level
  • Chambers at 2nd level
  • 3rd level ?????
Maybe Styles is that guy at level 3
Click to expand...

JTT for sure. Chambers maybe a stretch? 3rd level Styles has the look but who knows.

Because comps are easy let’s take the ‘15 title team. Great example of a team that didn’t have a dominant defense but had “enough”.

#1: they had Bosa, Lee, Bell. Check!

#2: They lost to VaTech early, and then got pushed by a mediocre PSU and a good MichSt. Pushed through and started housing teams. Not the best example like the one loss Alabama teams, but good enough.

#3: That team loved sending Darron Lee and relying on Grant/Apple/Bell to cover. And trusted it could make pocket uncomfortable with Bosa/Washington.
 
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I don’t even know what the job description of the Jack is or the body type.

But for 2 years I’ve heard how dynamic Kourt Williams is.
When he came during garbage time in 2021 he always flashed.
This year he was named a captain.
Wasn’t playing at all early, then heard he was hurt and that set him back.
Then he got hurt and was done for the year.

My assumption maybe incorrectly was the Jack was built for an oversized safety.
Not someone Sawyers size.
But I really don’t have a clue.
 
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cdiddy70 said:
I don’t even know what the job description of the Jack is or the body type.

But for 2 years I’ve heard how dynamic Kourt Williams is.
When he came during garbage time in 2021 he always flashed.
This year he was named a captain.
Wasn’t playing at all early, then heard he was hurt and that set him back.
Then he got hurt and was done for the year.

My assumption maybe incorrectly was the Jack was built for an oversized safety.
Not someone Sawyers size.
But I really don’t have a clue.
Click to expand...
Yeah Williams was another thought I had for Jack. Wondering where some of the talent we have at LB is going to end up. Seems like we are loaded there with nowhere for them to play in this scheme
 
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RuGettinIt said:
Yes, Sawyer kind of disappeared this year. Maybe Curry gets more time in there. Simon at Jack?
Click to expand...

I thought Curry looked real good in the Jack when he got his opportunities. I wouldn't be mad at seeing Hicks maybe get some looks there with his size and speed. I'd like to see Sawyer back at DE if possible.

Sawyer/Hall/Tyleik/JTT should absolutely be one of, if not THE, best DL in all the country.

As an aside on defense as a whole....we saw every defense get tore up this year, including the likes of Alabama all year and UGA in the playoffs. The expectations some people have are from a bygone era.
 
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bigdog3300 said:
I thought Curry looked real good in the Jack when he got his opportunities. I wouldn't be mad at seeing Hicks maybe get some looks there with his size and speed. I'd like to see Sawyer back at DE if possible.

Sawyer/Hall/Tyleik/JTT should absolutely be one of, if not THE, best DL in all the country.

As an aside on defense as a whole....we saw every defense get tore up this year, including the likes of Alabama all year and UGA in the playoffs. The expectations some people have are from a bygone era.
Click to expand...
I agree that Jack and JT should be at defensive end. Maybe a guy like Milton can finally stay healthy and be an option there too? This DL next year absolutely will be the best in college ball and there should be some depth too with last year's class. One player to watch out for is the incoming DT from Georgia who's a different player than we normally have.

Everything starts up front and luckily we'll have a very good DL and a fantastic LB room as well. Just have to figure out the secondary (particularly at safety).
 
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I think you've basically got two choices in modern college football, either you:

A) play a zone-based, bend but don't break type of defense designed to keep the top on at all times and make 4 point plays in the red zone

or

B) you play a maximum havoc type of scheme that knows it's going to give up big plays and touchdowns, but doesn't care because it's also going to turn the ball over and generate a bunch of 3 and outs whenever the other team can't hit the clutch button

This havoc stuff isn't really about blitzing, because you can blitz a bunch out of the zone schemes if you want to; but the "best" defenses running the first style, Michigan and Georgia, really didn't rely on the pass rush to win. It's more about being willing to gamble a little bit to get the big stop and playing the numbers game. One fast sack is usually enough to kill a drive, putting your secondary on islands doesn't matter if they make the tackle, and so forth. Obviously Knowles runs this kind of system, and on paper it's good marriage with an OSU passing attack that executes at a high level - but the downside is of course that if your offense stops scoring, suddenly all that gambling can get real costly, real fast.

As for the final scores, to me that's more about what your offense can do. I understand the psychological effect of seeing your previously good defense getting ripped for 40+ points makes it seem like the scheme is failing, but that's just the price of tea in China, in these playoff games; even Saban said as much. What matters, at least afaict, is that you're executing at the highest possible level on defense, against these elite offenses; throw the dice often enough and you get the big stop, or the timely turnover you need. That seems to be true no matter which style of defense folks are playing.
 
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cdiddy70 said:
Want to see Sawyer take a jump next year.

Not sure the Jack position is natural for him.
If he goes to full time DE not sure who plays the Jack.
Click to expand...
IMO, Jack is a bigger OLB who specializes in rushing the passer. I honestly see someone like Reid Carrico or even a Abor/Jackson being able to play Jack. Curry rotates at DE, whomever doesn't bulk up between Abor or Jackson moves to Jack and the other also rotates at DE

Captain Buckeye said:
I agree that Jack and JT should be at defensive end. Maybe a guy like Milton can finally stay healthy and be an option there too? This DL next year absolutely will be the best in college ball and there should be some depth too with last year's class. One player to watch out for is the incoming DT from Georgia who's a different player than we normally have.

Everything starts up front and luckily we'll have a very good DL and a fantastic LB room as well. Just have to figure out the secondary (particularly at safety).
Click to expand...
Milton and K Williams are the 2 biggest defensive what ifs due to not being able to stay healthy. At this point its hard for me to count on either one of them to produce much.

But fully agreed that the secondary needs to be fixed. I'm still not sure whether its technique or scheme that's the issue with the DBs(could be both)
 
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pnuts34 said:
IMO, Jack is a bigger OLB who specializes in rushing the passer. I honestly see someone like Reid Carrico or even a Abor/Jackson being able to play Jack. Curry rotates at DE, whomever doesn't bulk up between Abor or Jackson moves to Jack and the other also rotates at DE


Milton and K Williams are the 2 biggest defensive what ifs due to not being able to stay healthy. At this point its hard for me to count on either one of them to produce much.

But fully agreed that the secondary needs to be fixed. I'm still not sure whether its technique or scheme that's the issue with the DBs(could be both)
Click to expand...
I'm sure it's a blend of some things. For example, we shouldn't be calling zero or cover 1 with an 11 point lead. At the same time Ransom is there but just somehow trips?

IMO it's more talent and technique than anything.
 
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