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- Thread starter BigWoof31
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Gatorubet
Loathing All Things Georgia
Muck;1410715; said:
The "traitors" were the ones legally and Constitutionally correct, but it did turn out well for the country. Good move even if illegal. Anyway, if Andy Jackson hadn't been POTUS in the early 1830s, South Carolina would have already left.
Hell, you yankees were blubering on about wanting secession in 1814 in that Hartford convention, so why you acted so surprised and hypocritical in 1860 was beyond us.
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Jake
Once a Buckeye, always a Buckeye
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Gatorubet;1410727; said:Hell, you yankees were blubering on about wanting secession in 1814 in that Hartford convention, so why you acted so surprised and hypocritical in 1860 was beyond us.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLtsmQ1MlE8&feature=related]YouTube - YANKEE DOODLE[/ame]
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IronBuckI
Calmer than you are.
You can't break up with me because I'm breaking up with you first.Gatorubet;1410727; said:The "traitors" were the ones legally and Constitutionally correct, but it did turn out well for the country. Good move even if illegal. Anyway, if Andy Jackson hadn't been POTUS in the early 1830s, South Carolina would have already left.
Hell, you yankees were blubering on about wanting secession in 1814 in that Hartford convention, so why you acted so surprised and hypocritical in 1860 was beyond us.
What do you mean you're ok with that?
GET BACK HERE YOU BITCH!!!!
I love you...
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Gatorubet
Loathing All Things Georgia
Muck;1410753; said:
Mucky, we were talking the right of any state to secede for any reason under the same principles that gave the sovereign state the right to join the Union in the first place.
I think everyone here is beyond the point that you make, and the obscenity that was slavery was an unquestioned evil. But that sad fact has nothing at all to do with the right of any state to secede, be it the northern seaboard mercantile states [censored]ed about war with Britain or the southern states mad about the North's refusal to regard the rules in the Constitution that dealt with slavery. States can walk out of the Union for good reasons and bad reasons. They did. The Southern states seceded and formed their own nation. That is why we refer to it as the War Between the States. Fortunately, Lincoln said screw the Constitution and formed a plan to attack the states that left. Those crazy wackos in the Palmetto State wanted their fort back before the real shooting started.
It was on. Damn good thing too.
Now, my ancestors are all Yankees and GGGrandfather Almond* fought for the Union (OK, he mostly laid in bed at the hospital in Tennessee), but we were too poor to own slaves. My wifes ancestors had beau coup slaves. Like 30 or 40. Rich bitches. Her folks would have shot at my folks back then. *family shame. He was from Michigan.
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BUCKYLE
Washed
Gatorubet;1410785; said:Mucky, we were talking the right of any state to secede for any reason under the same principles that gave the sovereign state the right to join the Union in the first place.
I think everyone here is beyond the point that you make, and the obscenity that was slavery was an unquestioned evil. But that sad fact has nothing at all to do with the right of any state to secede, be it the northern seaboard mercantile states [censored]ed about war with Britain or the southern states mad about the North's refusal to regard the rules in the Constitution that dealt with slavery. States can walk out of the Union for good reasons and bad reasons. They did. The Southern states seceded and formed their own nation. That is why we refer to it as the War Between the States. Fortunately, Lincoln said screw the Constitution and formed a plan to attack the states that left. Those crazy wackos in the Palmetto State wanted their fort back before the real shooting started.
It was on. Damn good thing too.
*family shame. He was from Michigan.
Soooo...the South tried to use a loophole in the Constitution to keep slaves. Got it.
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There are no loopholes in the Constitution, it couldn't possibly be anymore clear!BUCKYLE;1410978; said:
Family Guy / Right to Bear Arms - It's Funny Honey!
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Gatorubet
Loathing All Things Georgia
Yeah. Like the loopholes that said you had three branches of government, a President elected for a four year term, a Senate and House of Representatives, and that the states that had voluntarily joined could voluntarily leave...like that. Section 9 of Article I states that importing slaves would be allowed until at least 1808, and Section 2 of Article IV said you had to give runaway slaves back.BUCKYLE;1410978; said:
I'm not arguing it was right, I'm just saying that was the deal. Everybody agreed to it. Everybody knew the rules. But it was not taught to me when I went to school in the north that it was the New England states that first talked about seceding, and that the south was surprised at the hypocritical northern response to their leaving, it being their right under the Constitution.
Again, good thing Abe did not care.
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BUCKYLE
Washed
Gatorubet;1411073; said:
Then what the fuck are you arguing for?
I'm allowed to take three hundred dollars to the liqouor store and buy enough booze to drink myself into a coma. I don't because...well, evidentally because I'm not a Southerner circa 1860. If I did drink myself into a coma...it would be known as "That time that idtiot drank himself into a coma"...not, "The war between Kyle and his booze".
I think most of us get that ya'll were allowed to secede. The reasons you gave ring hollow. The rich leadership wanted to keep slaves. Abe said "no". The south lost, tough shit, get over it.
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