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DE Will Smith (National Champion, Super Bowl Champion, Pro-bowler; R.I.P.)

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greyscarlet said:
If I lived in New Orleans I would carry a gun, if I were African American in New Orleans I'd carry a very efficient gun. The fact ( seemingly) the revolver wasn't pulled shows smith had no intention to use it and didn't realized psycho was going psycho.
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A revolver was found in the shooter's vehicle (in addition to the .45 used to shoot the Smiths). There was a 9mm pistol found in their vehicle (presumably a semi-auto).

Edit: Dryden already covered that.


Dryden said:
Smith was following too close, rear ended him, then fled the scene.
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Looking at the video I'm not convinced contact was made.

If someone slams on his brakes for no reason in front of me forcing me to almost hit them, you can be sure that I'm going around to get away from the idiot too.
 
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Dryden said:
No idea, but there is a man wheeling two 64 gallon trash bins to the curb in the video. Hayes could claim he stopped because he saw that man approaching the street. Perhaps there was a vehicle ahead of him that was pulling into the curb-side parking space that we can't see in the angle of the first part in the video. Really not sure that matters. Smith was following too close, rear ended him, then fled the scene. Hayes appears to follow for three blocks and then rear ends Smith either on accident or in retaliation, at which point both get out of their vehicles and exchange words. Witnesses reported Smith said something to the effect of, "Get out of here or I'll get my gun." Hayes responds, "Fuck y'all, I got one too," and opens fire as Smith is climbing back into his vehicle, presumably to retrieve his 9mm which is in the passenger cabin.

At least, that's my interpretation based on what's been reported thus far.

This will be a test of Louisiana's Stand-Your-Ground law.
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I really hope this doesn't end up going in that direction, but if so here is some legal language to parse over:

...
C. A person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and who is in a place where he or she has a right to be shall have no duty to retreat before using deadly force as provided for in this Section, and may stand his or her ground and meet force with force.

D. No finder of fact shall be permitted to consider the possibility of retreat as a factor in determining whether or not the person who used deadly force had a reasonable belief that deadly force was reasonable and apparently necessary to prevent a violent or forcible felony involving life or great bodily harm or to prevent the unlawful entry.
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http://legis.la.gov/Legis/law.aspx?d=78338

But Hayes rear-ending and confronting Smith could possibly muddy the waters on his legal standing:

§21. Aggressor cannot claim self defense

A person who is the aggressor or who brings on a difficulty cannot claim the right of self-defense unless he withdraws from the conflict in good faith and in such a manner that his adversary knows or should know that he desires to withdraw and discontinue the conflict.
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http://legis.la.gov/Legis/law.aspx?d=78348
 
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Dryden said:
No idea, but there is a man wheeling two 64 gallon trash bins to the curb in the video. Hayes could claim he stopped because he saw that man approaching the street. Perhaps there was a vehicle ahead of him that was pulling into the curb-side parking space that we can't see in the angle of the first part in the video. Really not sure that matters. Smith was following too close, rear ended him, then fled the scene. Hayes appears to follow for three blocks and then rear ends Smith either on accident or in retaliation, at which point both get out of their vehicles and exchange words. Witnesses reported Smith said something to the effect of, "Get out of here or I'll get my gun." Hayes responds, "Fuck y'all, I got one too," and opens fire as Smith is climbing back into his vehicle, presumably to retrieve his 9mm which is in the passenger cabin.

At least, that's my interpretation based on what's been reported thus far.

This will be a test of Louisiana's Stand-Your-Ground law.
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I think you misread that report. The revolver also belonged to Hayes and was recovered from his H2. Smith had a 9mm in his vehicle and was ostensibly climbing into his Mercedes to retrieve it, which is why Hayes made the decision to draw his .45 and shoot Smith in the back.
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Not sure why you're repeatedly leaping to this conclusion. Is it inconceivable to you that Smith was climbing back into his car to leave, having reconsidered his (alleged) statement upon hearing Hayes' response?
 
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buckeyesin07 said:
Not sure why you're repeatedly leaping to this conclusion. Is it inconceivable to you that Smith was climbing back into his car to leave, having reconsidered his (alleged) statement upon hearing Hayes' response?
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I believe Dryden is speaking from the point of view of Hayes based on eye witness claims that have been made so far. If Will really did say he was going to get a gun & then headed to his vehicle, it would be reasonable to assume he was in fact going to retrieve a weapon.

That doesn't mean that is actually what happened, there is going to be a lot more information (some of which will be contradictory) before this is all over.

AuTX Buckeye said:


.... uhm... not the aggressor?
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The entire article is worth reading. It's the first time we've heard what happened from the POV of the Smith family.
 
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Bill Lucas said:
The attorney that spoke today said that Raquel Smith was shot first. There goes any stand your ground or self defense model.
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Family attorney: Racquel Smith was shot first, before Will Smith was shot in back, killed

.../snip/...
Racquel Smith then stepped out of the Mercedes and pulled her husband away from the confrontation with the help of one of their friends, Thomson said. Racquel Smith told Hayes she and her husband had children at home, and she believed the situation had been defused, Thomson said.

“She was holding her hands up, pleading with this man to back off,” Thomson said. “My understanding is Will and Racquel wanted to just call the police and not engage this guy in any kind of a fight or altercation because he was obviously enraged or deranged.”

Hayes at some point drew a .45-caliber handgun, police have said. As the Smiths were returning to their vehicle, Hayes fired one bullet in each of Racquel Smith’s legs, causing her to collapse, Thomson said.

One bullet shattered Racquel Smith’s right femur, near the knee, Thomson said. The other bullet passed through her left thigh, Thomson said.

Hayes then shot Will Smith six to eight times in the back, Thomson said. “That’s 10 shots that we know about,” said Thomson, of the Stone Pigman law firm, which has a long relationship with Saints owner Tom Benson.

The New Orleans Coroner’s Office on Wednesday indicated seven bullets entered Smith’s back. Another struck Smith’s “left lateral chest wall,” the coroner said.

Police said Smith died while partially inside of the Mercedes. Toxicology tests remain pending, the Coroner’s Office said.

.../snip/...
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The article also states that the occupants of the car in front of the Smiths were also members of their party. That is five witnesses including Racquel Smith.
 
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Muck said:
I believe Dryden is speaking from the point of view of Hayes based on eye witness claims that have been made so far. If Will really did say he was going to get a gun & then headed to his vehicle, it would be reasonable to assume he was in fact going to retrieve a weapon.
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Fair enough. Looking at it again, it is clearer in the first quote.
 
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buckeyesin07 said:
Not sure why you're repeatedly leaping to this conclusion. Is it inconceivable to you that Smith was climbing back into his car to leave, having reconsidered his (alleged) statement upon hearing Hayes' response?
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To be clear, my previous comment was in regards to Hayes and his lawyers apparent defense strategy based on the video available, the lawyer's statements, and statements circulating this morning attributed to the passenger in Hayes' Hummer.
 
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Steve19 said:
To be clear, this person needs to be put to death for this crime.
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I agree.

this is one of the reasons I rarely go to NOLA even though it's just under and hour drive from my house.

crap like this happens all too often there. just doesn't always involve a high profile person so most of the country doesn't know about it.

NOLA has a well earned reputation of being a violent city with lot of drugs and gang activity.
but incidents like this where the dead guy had no involvement with that side of the city happen damn near every day.
but all you hear is total number of murders, etc. and that number gets downplayed as if it only happens in the seedier parts of town.
 
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