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DB Dustin Fox (National Champion)

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FKA: Even if somebody comes out and says that the CB position should be played by a black athlete, that isn't in and of itself racism. It's a stupid statement, and a huge over-generalization, but it is not necessarily insulting to whites or discriminatory in any way.

You're shittin' us right? If I were to say that quarterback should be played by a white guy, I'd be ran out of town for being a bigot, yet someone should be able to say that corner is a black man's position and not be racist in saying so? If I'm to say that political positions should be held by whites, you wouldn't think that is in and of itself is racist? Damn right it would be.

The reason why KillerNut was called out on this (by me, by the way) is that I saw no other reason for him calling a white corner, who has by all accounts (coaches, teammates, media) played the position exceptionally well, "horrible" other than thinly-veiled racism. Now, had Fox been shaky at the position the entire time, then I can see criticism of his play, but as we all know, other than the Illinois game in 2002 where he played with a hip injury, he has be very, very good. He has yet to be beaten deep for a TD...not one single time. He gave up fewer TDs than Gamble did, and he played corner longer than Gamble did.

Dustin Fox may be the rare exception, and maybe even an anomaly, but the fact remains that he is still a solid corner despite his lack of pigmentation.
 
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On the Field

Despite everybody having an "opinion" about Fox or any other player, the crucible of competition tests EVERY player on the field. If Fox was not solid, Ohio State could not have gone 25-2 and won an NC. Believe me, Fox would have been exploited early and often. Teams have tried, but the truth is they all lost trying, and neither of the two losses in the 25-2 were directly attributable to Fox. Fox is a 40 inch-vertical-leapin' senior now, and although this is forward-looking speculation, I would not be surprised at all to see him have his best year yet.
 
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Fox simply had different responsibilities under Dantonio. He was asked to give a cushion, not let the receiver get behind him unless he was handing him off to a safety, and make sure tackles. He has done what the coaches have asked him to do and he always grades out high. Great defense isn't always about making the flashy or big plays, it is about taking care of your assignments so the rest of the defense can do their jobs. I would bet almost no one on the defense does this better than Fox, or else he would have been replaced, and he would not be so well respected among other coaches in the Big 10.
 
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Fox is awesome. As someone said earlier, look at his family. I believe his uncle Tim Fox was an all-american DB for us in the '70s. He's got the genes and all the physical tools. He's intelligent on the field. He plays hard every play. He is a great tackler. He might give up his fair share of dinky 7 yd completions, and he needs to do a better job of avoiding penalties, but there is a reason why he was named to the all-big ten team. his one weakness is that he's short, and big receivers tend to do well against him (i.e walter young). but he's great at stopping small fast receivers like roscoe parrish (that TD he had in the fiesta bowl came on a blitz where doss had him in a man-to-man assignment).


Dustin Fox is a very very good football player. Is he as good as Shawn Springs? Hell no. Nobody better fit the "shut-down corner" role better than springs. But Fox is the perfect player for our "bend but don't break" system.

Fox is awesome, I really can't believe there are people that don't like him, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
 
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BuckeyeTrail said:
Fox is awesome, I really can't believe there are people that don't like him, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
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As has been shown in the past on similar threads, these people are usually the ones who do not understand the defensive scheme or difference in coverage. For instance, many complain about the short completions in front of Fox...yet these folks also fail to realize that MD's blitz tendancies lead to alot of Cover 1(man). Therefore, the CB cannot jump the quick out route with reckless abandon. Dustin Fox plays his responsibility which equals TEAM success. When players start freelancing, units get in trouble.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
You're shittin' us right? If I were to say that quarterback should be played by a white guy, I'd be ran out of town for being a bigot, yet someone should be able to say that corner is a black man's position and not be racist in saying so? If I'm to say that political positions should be held by whites, you wouldn't think that is in and of itself is racist? Damn right it would be.

The reason why KillerNut was called out on this (by me, by the way) is that I saw no other reason for him calling a white corner, who has by all accounts (coaches, teammates, media) played the position exceptionally well, "horrible" other than thinly-veiled racism. Now, had Fox been shaky at the position the entire time, then I can see criticism of his play, but as we all know, other than the Illinois game in 2002 where he played with a hip injury, he has be very, very good. He has yet to be beaten deep for a TD...not one single time. He gave up fewer TDs than Gamble did, and he played corner longer than Gamble did.

Dustin Fox may be the rare exception, and maybe even an anomaly, but the fact remains that he is still a solid corner despite his lack of pigmentation.
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Mili - I stand by my statement. Could it be perceived as racism? Yes, and in all likelihood, it probably would be. I know you are the one that originally called Killer out on this racism thing, but at least you explained your reasoning. That was followed by about 4 or 5 posters simply slamming Killer because he is racist. I do not agree with Killer's assessment of Fox, but I also do not see where he is a racist because of it. And if you were to say your above statement about a black vs. white QB, then yeah, you would be run out of town. But that doesn't make it racism. Ignorant, yes, but racism? If someone believes that whites should play QB, but blacks should play CB, how are they racist? Where is the discrimination? Now, understand, I neither sympathize or condone people that are ignorant enough to make these statements. I just do not feel that Killer should be accused of it.
 
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I don't think His color is an issue here. He was the fastest Buckey last year wasn't he ? Some just think he isn't a good corner for the first ten yards of a wr's route. Others say he has trouble with tall wr's. But he has done a couple of things that make him fair game for criticism.

1. Leading the nation in PI's (thats a big one) This is the main reason we don't think he gets beat deep. Take away these pi's, and he gets beat plenty of times for big plays last year.

2. He lacks some kind of hip flexability or something, because he has to play off of wr's a great distance to make up for his inability to turn and cut on a dime. (loose hips isn't a black thing is it) ? Fox is just pure and simple "a saftey."

But plenty of pluses:

1.I think his biggest strength is his tackling ability. If a wr he is gaurding catches the ball, he will hit the ground on that very spot.

2.He also has the speed to make up for most of the distance that he gives a wr.

3. He catches passes that other db's can only bat down. He has nice hands for a db.

4. Very smart. Even his pi's go toward his football I.Q.

Fox is a great football player but only a pretty good cb. I think with some experience, he will take almost any safety's job in the league. All pro by his 3rd year in the league. (as a safety)
 
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Just for the sake of posterity- And I really don't see any point in getting into any further discussion on what I'm about to say, but in the event that there is anyone out there who might be confused on the issue. Killernut is not a 'racist' in any sense of the word. I wouldn't go so far as to say that he's a close friend of mine, but I've drank enough beers with the man, and talked about enough different types of issues that I say that with a great deal of confidence.

(Of course, You all may think I'm a whack job.. so take it for what its worth)
 
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osugrad21 said:
When players start freelancing, units get in trouble.
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Here, here!

I'd much rather have a guy like Fox, who you can count on to play his responsibilities, play after play after play, then a guy who goes for the big play, is out of position, and gets burned. When Fox is in position the other guys on D can worry about their responsibilities - they trust that Fox will make the plays he's asked to make. Imagine how a guy like Salley would look, if he spent half his time worrying about if Fox was going to play his position correctly, and the other half the time, he had to figure out where he's supposed to be on any given snap. Haven't had too many of those freelance guys at OSU (in the DB spot in particular) over the last 10 years or so, which is good. Derek Ross and Nate Clements, come to mind, but that's it (and even those guys weren't "liabilities" with respect to jumping for the "big play")
 
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antosu said:
...he has done a couple of things that make him fair game for criticism.

1. Leading the nation in PI's (thats a big one) This is the main reason we don't think he gets beat deep. Take away these pi's, and he gets beat plenty of times for big plays last year.

2. He lacks some kind of hip flexability or something, because he has to play off of wr's a great distance to make up for his inability to turn and cut on a dime. (loose hips isn't a black thing is it) ? Fox is just pure and simple "a saftey."
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1. Do you have a viable source for that claim of most PIs in the nation? Also, I firmly disagree that he'd be getting beat deep a lot without the PIs...nearly all of his PIs are when he closes in from playing back on the short under routes. How are those PIs preventing the deep play? I've seen plenty of passes he's defended deep running stride-for-stride with the receiver without committing interference...he almost never commits PI deep. The majority of PIs are from him having to close in quickly from a distance, and he's so fast he just gets there too early sometimes.

2. Not even going to get into the "safety" argument, seeing as no one on the team has been able to beat him out at corner over the last two seasons...well, make that three counting this upcoming season.
 
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antosu said:
...he has done a couple of things that make him fair game for criticism.

1. Leading the nation in PI's (thats a big one) This is the main reason we don't think he gets beat deep. Take away these pi's, and he gets beat plenty of times for big plays last year.

2. He lacks some kind of hip flexability or something, because he has to play off of wr's a great distance to make up for his inability to turn and cut on a dime. (loose hips isn't a black thing is it) ? Fox is just pure and simple "a saftey."
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Ant, no offense, but I disagree with both of your above statements. First, regarding the PI calls - how many times did Fox get flagged for PI on a deep route? Not very often. Almost all of his PI calls came because he hit the receiver before the ball arrived on an underneath route. Fox has excellent closing speed, and that is how he received the majority of his PI calls. Plus, if you look at the replay, a lot of them shouldn't even have been called.

Second, as a multitude of people have already stated, Fox gives WR's a cushion because that is what the defensive scheme calls for. If anything, his demonstrated "closing speed" and his failure to ever allow a deep TD (excluding ONE game two years ago) should clearly show that he is a good cover corner. He may not be the next Shawn Springs, but he's good enough to be a three year starter, and he's good enough to garner pre-season All-Big 10 awards. What else can the guy possibly do?

Edit: Damn you Mili, you beat me to the punch. Well, I'm not changing anything...:biggrin:
 
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I'll take most, if not all, of the pass interference penalties, if they stop a touchdown or make the receiver remember that he got hit and who did it.My bet is third round and that he'll be converted to safety.

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned, and Grad21, you might be able to shed some light on it, is his understanding of his own speed and ability in the real-time context of a game. I have heard on more than one occasion that I'm not where I'm "supposed" to be on a rugby pitch, and while I've listened to some coaches, have mostly blown it off because, within a range of space, I'm where I am at a particular moment for a reason based upon my knowledge of how fast it takes me to close a particular gap and the speed at which I want to be moving at the time I hit it. Certainly, with three years in Fox knows in depth where he belongs, within the context of each defensive set, to be most effective, given his particular abilities.
 
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