Where did I compare those specific teams? I said conference. My point about Penn State's and Miami's dropoffs after joining a conference proves that. If you were to join a conference you'd play the biggies of the conference every year, not just a select few years. In this decade you've gone 12-9 against Big Ten teams, including 3-3 against the Big Two (3-2 against Michigan and 0-1 against Ohio State). My math says 12-9 equates to three 4-3 conference records. Since we play eight conference games, we need one more for each season, and since 12-9 is closer to 2-1 than 3-0 or 1-2, let's give you that 2-1 record for an addition win in two seasons and a loss in the other. So, you'd finish--on the average--with conference records of 5-3, 4-4, and 5-3 (or any other order you choose). Not very impressive I'd say...