Coronavirus (COVID-19) is too exciting for adults to discuss (CLOSED)

[jwinslow]

I want Josh dead!

One of your dreams will come true. Things are looking up!

 

[heisman]

China did that and their vaccine sucks. Look up Sinovac or Sinopharm vaccine. It's 50% efficacy rates as opposed to the 90+ of Pfizer and Moderna.
https://www.ibtimes.com/chinas-sino...y-58-effective-against-covid-19-study-3266622

We were sold a bill of goods on efficacy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc...tts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html

 

[jwinslow]

We were sold a bill of goods on efficacy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc...tts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html

So the virus and science evolves, and the people studying the virus are being rebuked using the data from the people who we are seeking to rebuke?

Asking for a friend.

Also there's this

Testing identified the delta variant in 90% of specimens from 133 patients.

While numerous studies have shown that the vaccines don’t work as well against the delta variant as they did against other strains, health officials say they are still highly effective, especially in protecting against severe illness and death. Roughly 97% of new hospitalizations and 99.5% of deaths in the U.S. are among unvaccinated individuals, U.S. health officials repeated this week.

The CDC also said the data has limitations. The agency noted that as population-level vaccination coverage increases, vaccinated persons are likely to represent a larger proportion of Covid cases. Additionally, asymptomatic breakthrough infections might be underrepresented because of detection bias, the agency said.

The data:
1) is quite small and thus not especially reliable
2) suggests that transmission is substantial regardless of vaccine
3) suggests the outcome is almost 100x better with the vaccine

 

[heisman]

So the virus and science evolves, and the people studying the virus are being rebuked using the data from the people who we are seeking to rebuke?

Asking for a friend.

Also there's thisThe data:
1) is quite small and thus not especially reliable
2) suggests that transmission is substantial regardless of vaccine
3) suggests the outcome is almost 100x better with the vaccine

If outcomes (hospitalization/death) are exponentially better after getting vaccinated (I agree that they are), and everyone can walk into a 7-11 and get vaccinated, why the hell are we creating more restrictions? We are literally creating restrictions to protect people that don't want protection. Yes? My only counter argument would be children under 12 not being eligible yet.

 

[dragurd]

If outcomes (hospitalization/death) are exponentially better after getting vaccinated (I agree that they are), and everyone can walk into a 7-11 and get vaccinated, why the hell are we creating more restrictions? We are literally creating restrictions to protect people that don't want protection. Yes? My only counter argument would be children under 12 not being eligible yet.

Cause unlike trying to blow yourself up with fireworks, or other numerous self destructive behaviors that effect mostly the person themselves. This effects everyone around them. Especially those with weakened immune systems that the vaccine either won't take or effects will be reduced by. So unfortunately letting them do as they please with only a higher effective death rate for that group isn't a realistic scenario.

 

[muffler dragon]

Cause unlike trying to blow yourself up with fireworks, or other numerous self destructive behaviors that effect mostly the person themselves. This effects everyone around them. Especially those with weakened immune systems that the vaccine either won't take or effects will be reduced by. So unfortunately letting them do as they please with only a higher effective death rate for that group isn't a realistic scenario.

Understand your point. Question: is the onus equal between those with weakened immune systems and those that aren't?

 

[Jaxbuck]

Cause unlike trying to blow yourself up with fireworks, or other numerous self destructive behaviors that effect mostly the person themselves. This effects everyone around them. Especially those with weakened immune systems that the vaccine either won't take or effects will be reduced by. So unfortunately letting them do as they please with only a higher effective death rate for that group isn't a realistic scenario.

Even more unfortunate is the idea that, at this point, you are only going to get the unvaccinated to vaccinate through some kind of force.

I'd rather live with the virus and free choice about vaccination than a world where the government can force me or my family to take anything.

 

[dragurd]

Understand your point. Question: is the onus equal between those with weakened immune systems and those that aren't?

They problem is simply exposure at this point. A person with a weakened immune system is going to be exposed to more risk around those unvaccinated then vaccinated no matter what precautions they take. And expecting them to live like a hermit for an unspecified amount of time isn't exactly realistic either especially since those that have weakened immune system are more than likely to be making hospital and doctors visits.

Even more unfortunate is the idea that, at this point, you are only going to get the unvaccinated to vaccinate through some kind of force.

I'd rather live with the virus and free choice about vaccination than a world where the government can force me or my family to take anything.

The unfortunate reality of the us against them politics of the last god knows how many years and other factors. Has lead to segments of the population that is clearly the case. The question is how big is that segment. 30% 10% 5% etc... I don't have an issue with it being enforced in certain segments. Healthcare mostly

Anti-vax was already a growing segment before the virus this just brought it to the forefront. I'm not that old and I had certain required shots before I could go to school or Ohio State. I wonder how much of the anti-vax movement is a response to that

 

[jwinslow]

If outcomes (hospitalization/death) are exponentially better after getting vaccinated (I agree that they are), and everyone can walk into a 7-11 and get vaccinated, why the hell are we creating more restrictions?

The second part of that is rather crucial, and not looking probable.

We are literally creating restrictions to protect people that don't want protection. Yes? My only counter argument would be children under 12 not being eligible yet.

1) I'd modify that to "trying to protect people that view that protection as treason"

2) There are a lot of non children who also cannot get the vaccine

3) You bring up a good topic, risk to kids. Last spring? Almost no risk (at least we think). Now? Very at risk. The science evolves, and while some accountability is needed, plenty of grace is as well. Especially if their own numbers are going to be valued for rebuttals.


As someone who was extremely cautious, maintained that caution among staff when many did not, and am now fully vaccinated (april) and want this to be behind us, what's my responsibility? Am I being reckless to not wear a mask?


What happens as we get more data/confidence at how quickly this thing transmits? Do I need to be cautious in a way that upsets customers that aren't believers?

 

[AKAK]

One of your dreams will come true. Things are looking up!

All of my dreams will come true.

I voted for Pedro.

 

[AKAK]

The second part of that is rather crucial, and not looking probable.
1) I'd modify that to "trying to protect people that view that protection as treason"

2) There are a lot of non children who also cannot get the vaccine

3) You bring up a good topic, risk to kids. Last spring? Almost no risk (at least we think). Now? Very at risk. The science evolves, and while some accountability is needed, plenty of grace is as well. Especially if their own numbers are going to be valued for rebuttals.


As someone who was extremely cautious, maintained that caution among staff when many did not, and am now fully vaccinated (april) and want this to be behind us, what's my responsibility? Am I being reckless to not wear a mask?


What happens as we get more data/confidence at how quickly this thing transmits? Do I need to be cautious in a way that upsets customers that aren't believers?

This thing has been around since Dec 2020. (Delta)

If 70 percent of the population is vax'd. Most cases will end up being vax'd people.

Also, if you test for antibodies alone, you're going to get a superficial results that might question vaccine efficacy because well, lots of people have now had this this thing in some way, symptomatic or not.

All of which is to say, dear morons, all of you, get vax'd, and this CDC panic over 4 people going to the hospital in Massachsetts is... well... dumb AF.

 

[Jaxbuck]

They problem is simply exposure at this point. A person with a weakened immune system is going to be exposed to more risk around those unvaccinated then vaccinated no matter what precautions they take. And expecting them to live like a hermit for an unspecified amount of time isn't exactly realistic either especially since those that have weakened immune system are more than likely to be making hospital and doctors visits.



The unfortunate reality of the us against them politics of the last god knows how many years and other factors. Has lead to segments of the population that is clearly the case. The question is how big is that segment. 30% 10% 5% etc... I don't have an issue with it being enforced in certain segments. Healthcare mostly

Anti-vax was already a growing segment before the virus this just brought it to the forefront. I'm not that old and I had certain required shots before I could go to school or Ohio State. I wonder how much of the anti-vax movement is a response to that

I'm with you on a large part of the anti-vax thing being, imo, dumb as hell but as someone who tries to steer the middle ground, I don't like seeing how a group of people are summarily dismissed with no more thought to it than "ah, just hold them down and stick them if it comes to it". Their view point isn't popular but the element that focuses on government over reach isn't wrong.

Anyway, probably way too far into the political aspect here. I'm vaccinated and will wear masks again if it helps keep people around me calm but I am quickly running out of patience for more government fumbling and media fear mongering for profit.

 

[dragurd]

This thing has been around since Dec 2020. (Delta)

If 70 percent of the population is vax'd. Most cases will end up being vax'd people.

Also, if you test for antibodies alone, you're going to get a superficial results that might question vaccine efficacy because well, lots of people have now had this this thing in some way, symptomatic or not.

All of which is to say, dear morons, all of you, get vax'd, and this CDC panic over 4 people going to the hospital in Massachsetts is... well... dumb AF.

Speaking of which I meant to post this here but got sidetracked by work yesterday.

 

[muffler dragon]

They problem is simply exposure at this point. A person with a weakened immune system is going to be exposed to more risk around those unvaccinated then vaccinated no matter what precautions they take. And expecting them to live like a hermit for an unspecified amount of time isn't exactly realistic either especially since those that have weakened immune system are more than likely to be making hospital and doctors visits.

Just to be clear: I'm not promoting isolation or "living like a hermit".
From my ignorant position, those with weakened immune systems have had to be mindful of their environments for some time and take the actions that they feel are necessary to try to mitigate risk.
The next concentric circle of people in their life should also be mindful of that.
I just don't know that what the pragmatic basis would be for everyone to take steps based on that denominator.
So, thanks for answering.

 

[muffler dragon]

This thing has been around since Dec 2020. (Delta)

If 70 percent of the population is vax'd. Most cases will end up being vax'd people.

Also, if you test for antibodies alone, you're going to get a superficial results that might question vaccine efficacy because well, lots of people have now had this this thing in some way, symptomatic or not.

All of which is to say, dear morons, all of you, get vax'd, and this CDC panic over 4 people going to the hospital in Massachsetts is... well... dumb AF.

And on top of that, it would be nice to get some real data on just how dangerous this has been, is, and will most likely be in the future.
As the dialogue appears to be slowly moving from pandemic to endemic, there needs to be a recalibration on what we're going to do from here on out.