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Confused about evolution

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Albert Einstein, a dude who knew something about physics and math and believed in a higher power, said something along the lines of "Religion without science is blind, and science without religion is lame"

But you are not going to convince me that this whole thing started when lightning hit water and magically they were life and in such a sort time purely by chance a human beign was formed.
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Killer - I believe this theory known as spontaneous generation has been out of favor for about 20 years. It is not part of the theory of evolution.

I'll post more later, I have to run somewhere but you mentioned something about asking a mathematics professor something that I want to look at again since I may happen to know one. :wink2:
 
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Creationism has NO place in a science classroom. To call it a theory is fine, just don't put it in a science classroom because that could make it appear to be a scientific theory. Theories in science are subjected to the scientific method and since creationism is based on the belief in a higher power it can't be subjected to the scientific method.

It isn't a flaw of science to modify theories when more data becomes available, that is what science is all about!

As far as the probability question let me crank through some facts and look at the other side of the coin. There are billions (that is at least 1,000,000,000) of stars in our galaxy and there are billions of galaxies (again, that is at least 1,000,000,000). That means there are at least 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the universe (a very low estimate). Now if only 10% of these stars are at the "right" distance from the center of their galaxy to permit conditions for life (and we must say life as we know it) then that means there are "only" 100,000,000,000,000,000 stars that would be candidates for having planets that could support life. Maybe the 10% is too generous so what if only 1% of the stars are the right distance that would mean there are only 10,000,000,000,000,000 stars that would be candidates for supporting life. I could continue but the point is hopefully made. It is inconceivable that anyone would believe that our planet is the only planet in the universe that has supported life, or still supports life.

A question I always ask those whose "science" is based on religion is what if we find evidence of past life on Mars? Or, what if we find some under the ice on Europa? That would indicate that life may be more commonplace in the universe than we could imagine which in turn strengthens the case for intelligent life even more. How will religion doctrines rectify that?

If one wants to believe in creationism, and that God put the fossil evidence on Earth to fool us, then that is their right. Don't call it a theory, call it what it is.....a belief based on faith. Don't teach it in a scince class since it is as far from science as one can get. Instead, present it in a philosophy class, along with all of the other faith-based beliefs.
 
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This page about sums up my views on this topic:

No one, including creation scientists, disputes that so-called "micro-evolution" (variation within a type of organism) caused by natural selection occurs and may be responsible for the large number of species found within a type. Almost all touted evidences for evolution are of this category (like Darwin's finches, the "peppered moth", or bacteria that become resistant to antibiotics). However, it is important to note that "micro-evolution" is a misnomer, as it implies that "a little" evolution is taking place. In actuality, NO evolution is taking place, as no increase in complexity (such as the development of a new organ) is being generated, but merely the emphasis of some already present traits over others.

Large scale change of one type of organism into another, so-called "macro-evolution", is beyond the ability of mutation coupled with natural selection to produce. Evolutionists acknowledge this is a "research issue". Even non-creation scientists (such as Denton and Behe) have written books giving the hard scientific facts that document why this is impossible.
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how about the dr. seuss idea that our universe is simply a fish bowl....and some other universe is the house....and some other universe is the continent....and some other is the version of our galaxy....and so on.....

that premise would be along the lines of someone created the fishbowl....but after creation...evolution or natural selection are taking place on their own.....

i know its dr. seuss....but its a great book/theory.....
 
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but you dont have to make an entirely new organ to be a new species, i see what you are saying, but the changes that would take place such as this would literally take billions of years of micro evolutions.. ya know like our APENDIX! its going away.. why do you think we have one? or did god just mess up?
 
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the more complex the life....the longer it takes to achieve any form of dramatic "evolution".....

a virus can mutate/evolve at a faster rate than can the human...because it has to......plus the human has reached a status within the ecosystem that dramatic changes are not as prevelent....ie...our newborns dont have to exhibit certain traits from the get-go to simply survive one day....other species, turtles for example....lay hundreds of eggs in the hope that one survives....this type of existence is more likely to result in mutation than our human life....
 
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on a side note, our medical advancements and domination as a species are also detremental to our own evolution in that survival is RARELY an issue for us. and actually monogamy is just as bad in that respect since now almost every member of our species can breed, not just the strong or smart.. but many scientists still believe we are evolving just in smaller and simpler ways, ie: male pattern baldness, the amazing shrinking pinky, and our apendix.. actually something that is TOTALLY NOT PC and didnt get passed around much cuz no one wanted to be the one to say it, but a study a few years back was suggesting that the people who still live mid to southern africa and hadnt bread with any one from the other races was actually in danger of becoming different enough genetically taht we would no longer be able to "cross" breed.. *ducks* i know im gonna get bad reviews for that one.. but just remember i didnt say it, im just the messenger
 
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just a quick question for the creationists who believe in an omnipotent god......how do you explain a tornado hitting a daycare center and killing young children?

is god omnipotent? or are we simply his fishbowl? if he is omnipotent....then he cant be compassionate.....
 
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There are several good books on this

I quoted from memory some of the arguments used in Why People Believe in Weird Things by Michael Shermer. Since I saw this thread growing, I went and checked, I got the quotes pretty close. If you're interested in this controversy, I strongly recommend this book.

As far as teaching Creationism, and if there weren't the church & state separation issues, why would it have to be Christian? That seems a little bias to me. The Pope and his minions have a different point of view than a Jewish Creationist, and they both have a different perspective than a Hindu. But teaching any of this would be an insult to a Wiccan, and who am I to force a follower of Budda(sp) to believe what I belive. As I said earlier, that's why they call it faith.
 
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A few things.

One A tornado that hits a day care, or car accidents, 9/11, why my Mom died so earlry in my life, etc. I don't really have an excellent answer for other than it was part of God's plan. It is one of those thing that no one WANTS to see, but for some reason God sees reason for it. It is hopeful that maybe in tradgedy we grow stronger. God has a purpose and a plan for all things, and beyond that I can't answer it.

As far as teaching other creation myths along with my view, it is fine with me. I'm sure I am in the minority with my thinking, within the group who would like to see creationsism teached in school. But I have no problem with knowing even other ideas or thoughts, nor my kids. My kids will hopefully know the truth when they start to try and tackle that subject in school, and will know what is or isn't true. Not only that it will make us a MORE accepting culture, it will allow everyone to hopefully see all points of view. I also personally feel the truth is apparent.

If you would teach creationism along with the science that says that minor mutations can take place would that really be so wrong? I don't think you need to focus on the the 7 days and so on and so forth but I don't see a problem with saying at the begining of a class on evolution something like.

"There are many view points on how the world was started, some believe...." Go through them all quickly, and say that we are not trying to teach you that any of these are necessarily wrong, just these are the best theories that man's science has come up with baring these theories. Go into the competing scientific views and I will be very happy, and no one will be having religion forced down their throat!

Finally if life is found elsewhere, and I will be honest I have serious doubts, it really doesn't destroy anything in my religious doctrine. I never saw anything in The Bible that ever said that life exists only on Earth. It only describes life on earth, but that is where we live, so it makes sense why.
 
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One A tornado that hits a day care, or car accidents, 9/11, why my Mom died so earlry in my life, etc. I don't really have an excellent answer for other than it was part of God's plan. It is one of those thing that no one WANTS to see, but for some reason God sees reason for it.
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im just gonna bite my lip...

i had people telling me things ilke that when my lil sister died, ive never been so close to violence against clergy...

but i was wondering... THEORETICALLY, those kids would go to heaven right?? i mean they are still innocent and pure right?? so doesnt that mean someone like Timothy McVeih (sp) did a REALLY good deed by making sure that they all got spend eternity in gods land? or an abortion doctor who is putting all those little LIVES in heaven before they have a chance to sin?

is anyone else seeing the strange logic im getting from this??
 
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I understand your pain, and anger, and can appreciate it. Unfortuantely there just isn't a better answer. I can tell you that there are things in my life that have happened that I just can't see a reason for, and seem like the worst possible thing that could happen. But I am not God, and some of those, since that time, I can now see a reason for.

Would the kids go to heaven? Now you are getting into an area of debate that I just don't feel comfortable trying to answer. I don't know, I know that there are many strong views on that situation. I guess I just never worried about it, since it is not something that applied to me.

My gut feeling is probably, but that is nothing but a guess, and I don't have anything to back it up with.
 
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killer...

how about the thought that god is not omnipotent.....he is the creator...but no more than i created my fish tank....my fish still die from time to time....

omnipotence and compassion are the two traits that are completely contradictory in the christian faith....it can be one or the other...it cant be both....
 
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Buckeyeprof

Your argument that Christianity has no place in the science class rooms prooves to me that you have never studied some of todays scientist that can argue about God's creation of an univerisal geneitic code and other facts that lead to the theory of creation.
Many theories that are impossible to test are taught and discussed in science classes today. Why should creation be treated differently?
I can give you names of fifty different scientist that will argue creationism on a scientific basis.
You are a liberal and yet your view of creationism is very, very narrow minded.
Not very liberal of you, don't you think?

Diehard

When I consider God as a perfect and holy being that created man to be perfect but also allowd us a free will that led to the fall in the garden, the very fact that he allows any of us to live and actually decided that some would even be saved and spend enternity with him makes me realize that it is out of pure love that he lets any of us live and never decided to wipe the entire race out and begin again.
His patience with us is....well, it's Godly.
 
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this has all led to my view of our being.....something created us...it is not omnipotent...nor does it answer our prayers...or curse us...

i think a greater power set all of this into motion....just like i set my fish tank into life.....i dont know squat about what is happening at a cellular level of my tank....

do you know that gotama buddha....thousands of years before jesus....also "disappeared" after his death....?
 
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