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- Thread starter Oh8ch
- Start date
JXC
17-4 since 2001
I'm all for a playoff, we all know that. But this is stupid! Beyond stupid! The ONLY time I feel government should get involved in sports is when illegal things are going down. I don't see how the BCS breaks any laws. Especially now that the mid-major schools get money, even if they aren't involved in the BCS in that particular year.
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Give me a fucking break.
Why oh why are so many people obsessed with the notion that there must be a playoff-crowned champion of Div-1A CFB? The BCS system is the best we can hope for while retaining the history and tradion of a single-game post season framework. Div-1A CBF is teetering on the cusp between amateur and professional sport - I fear the move towards some sort of playoff will push it over the edge to some quasi-official NFLjr league and will kill CFB as we know it.
Is it worth jeopardising the history and traditions that we all know and love, just to eliminate some 'who deserves what' controversy the douchebags in ESPiN harp on and on about. Fuck that.
Why oh why are so many people obsessed with the notion that there must be a playoff-crowned champion of Div-1A CFB? The BCS system is the best we can hope for while retaining the history and tradion of a single-game post season framework. Div-1A CBF is teetering on the cusp between amateur and professional sport - I fear the move towards some sort of playoff will push it over the edge to some quasi-official NFLjr league and will kill CFB as we know it.
Is it worth jeopardising the history and traditions that we all know and love, just to eliminate some 'who deserves what' controversy the douchebags in ESPiN harp on and on about. Fuck that.
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This is a government that is out to right past wrongs.
According to H.R. 4107 In the future everybody gets a trophy.
Seriously, what this reveals about the mindset of congress and how it views its role is frightening.
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MaliBuckeye
1) Be A Man.
JXC;1617335; said:
I 100% agree with you. 100%.
However, the only "stick" that exists in this conversation is the financial one. And, the NCAA is currently a tax exempt institution working toward "educational endeavors", as are many of the bowl institutions.
If people feel that the current process isn't fair to students involved (although, let's be honest, this is mostly for fans), or somehow doesn't fall into the realm of "educational", then it is possible to revoke their status. And that's where the government's interest may come in.
Again, my opinion is that the only way we're ever significantly changing the current system is to change the finances; the bowls/TV contracts are too lucrative. So, short of coming up with a way to do a playoff and let all of the bowls keep all of their money (or make more), it may come down to looking at other financial realities (tax exemption).
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billmac91
Head Coach
TV is missing out of millions of dollars by not having a playoff. College Universities are missing out of millions by not having a playoff that is "in-house". The notion that money will be left on the table is a myth, and a myth that is perpetuated by people who will lose their share of the pie.
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MaliBuckeye
1) Be A Man.
billmac91;1617366; said:
Agreed, somewhat.
I personally believe that TV revenue will be great, but the tourism/ticket dollars may suffer- I don't know of many Buckeye fans who could afford $300+ tickets for multiple games across the country (assuming at least three rounds of playoffs).
And, there's a crapload of money that's being made by cities/bowl committees that should always be kept in consideration for this conversation... again, most all of it tax free.
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OH10
*
Top 5 reasons why we don't need a playoff.
1. The regular season is a playoff. I mean, Texas having to beat all of those cupcakes (and No. 20 Nebraska) is far more difficult and exciting than seeing them have to beat Florida, Cincy, TCU or Boise in some silly playoff game.
2. We have a solid tradition of teams playing against each other in our minds. Texas vs. TCU (mind-channeling.....) Texas wins 24-14. That's far better than having to waste the three and a half hours to watch them reach our already pre-determined result.
3. New Year's Day bowl games are a holiday tradition. I love waking up with a solid hangover and watching the best teams play in the biggest bowls while I flip the remote back and forth between the Orange, Fiesta, Rose and Sugar Bowls. (wait, they aren't all on New Year's Day anymore...) Well at least we have the Hall of Fame (err, Outback) and Citrus (err, Capital One) bowls.
4. You have to admit: The BCS system is better than putting all of the D-1 teams names into a hat and pulling two out to play for the national championship. Not much better.... but better.
5. Money and ratings. Nobody would even bother to watch a quarterfinal matchup between Texas and Florida. I mean, who would care about that? I would much rather watch TCU and Boise play each other in Glendale for a big, obscene trophy that looks like it was crafted by a drunk, Tarot-card-reading fortune teller from New Orleans.
1. The regular season is a playoff. I mean, Texas having to beat all of those cupcakes (and No. 20 Nebraska) is far more difficult and exciting than seeing them have to beat Florida, Cincy, TCU or Boise in some silly playoff game.
2. We have a solid tradition of teams playing against each other in our minds. Texas vs. TCU (mind-channeling.....) Texas wins 24-14. That's far better than having to waste the three and a half hours to watch them reach our already pre-determined result.
3. New Year's Day bowl games are a holiday tradition. I love waking up with a solid hangover and watching the best teams play in the biggest bowls while I flip the remote back and forth between the Orange, Fiesta, Rose and Sugar Bowls. (wait, they aren't all on New Year's Day anymore...) Well at least we have the Hall of Fame (err, Outback) and Citrus (err, Capital One) bowls.
4. You have to admit: The BCS system is better than putting all of the D-1 teams names into a hat and pulling two out to play for the national championship. Not much better.... but better.
5. Money and ratings. Nobody would even bother to watch a quarterfinal matchup between Texas and Florida. I mean, who would care about that? I would much rather watch TCU and Boise play each other in Glendale for a big, obscene trophy that looks like it was crafted by a drunk, Tarot-card-reading fortune teller from New Orleans.
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JXC
17-4 since 2001
Okay, that is easily fixed by a playoff that has homefield. Then people can travel to the games, and it keeps the money in town and is good for your own economy. How much money does Ohio see from bowl games? NONE! We lose money because we take it out of state. A home playoff game at Ohio Stadium would bring in a bunch of money.
You aren't taking away any money overall, you are just moving it to different places. Why should only the south and warm weather places benefit? I always felt like the NCG should be played in Indy, or Detroit some day. Kind of like the Super Bowl.
And a playoff doesn't have to destroy the bowl games. Loser of a playoff can still go to the bowl games. We already take the top 2 teams out of bowl games, and put them into the NCG...well just do the same thing.
Unless the Pac-10 winner or Big-10 winner makes the final game in a playoff, then they still play in the Rose Bowl. And so on and so forth in the other bowls. And if you started the playoff the last week of November, you could have the final 2 set by mid December, and could know where everybody was going at about the same time we know now. Let's say Texas and Alabama were the teams that made it through said 16 team playoff. Well then you would still have the exact same match-ups in the bowls as you did now. With the exact same things on the line.
It would only take 14 days to get from 16 teams to 2.
And if you want to give incentive for finishing the regular season in the top 2, make it a 14 team playoff, and give the top 2 teams a bye.
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MaliBuckeye
1) Be A Man.
JXC;1617393; said:
We're on the same page with our hypothetical situation- Realistically, though I see a couple of things happening :
1) You will lose money over all; Buckeye fans with limited funds may skip the first round of the playoffs, or only go to the first round. By the time you get to the finals, will there be enough people with cash? What happens to the people who saved their "bowl money" for the second round game only to see their team upset in the first round? I think they'll spend it on Natty rather than travel.
2) Anything that takes away from the "sacredness" of the bowls (read- money) is going to freak out the old guard cash cows. And, I think, this includes having the Fiesta as a "semi-final" rather than as a final.
3) I agree about the midwest/north teams being screwed during the bowl teams: how great would it be to have Florida play us in Soldier Field rather than Tempe or Orlando? But, bowls are about tourism to warm climates, and no one wants to party in Detroit or Buffalo in January.
I think there's a way around this, and discussed it earlier...
Not as if our opinion matters to the powers that be, right?
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TheRob8801
Banned
Okay...
Now this is a dead horse worth beating.
This is going to be an extremely long post, but bear with me and give me the benefit of the doubt. I'm looking for feedback and this seems like the kind of forum that I'll get it from.
You can go on for days and days about the pro's and con's. I have, and will probably continue to do so. For the time being, I have a hypothetical "Bowl Playoff Series" in mind that takes into account a few more factors that I feel most proposals leave out:
1) A playoff system with the seasons as they are now could last well into January, and nobody wants to see that. (Especially since seniors would lose their eligibility after a certain date).
The solution is a wild one, but bear with me.
This year's conference winners in the "Big 6" conferences were Cincinnati, Texas, Alabama, Ohio State, Oregon, and Georgia Tech. As a fan of college football, think to yourself which champions from this list played in the more exciting football games at the end of the season.
Trick question, they were all fairly exciting were they not?
So who's to say that the conference championship games Texas, Alabama, and Georgia Tech played in are even necessary in deciding a conference champion?
If Alabama and Florida played in a "pool" conference such as the Big 10, Pac-10 or Big East would their game not be a defacto championship game whenever it was played?
Though Big Red put up a fight, why does Texas need to play them in order to prove they were conference champions?
If we remove the conference championship games (which also means removing the divisions in each conference) each conference plays a pseudo-round robin where each game is of even more importance as they are playing against every team in the conference, rather than just 5 or 6.
This would allow the proposed playoff to play out a week earlier than the bowl games are played now...and if you ever thought about how genius it is to market college football games on Thanksgiving, imagine how much of a commercial thrill it would be to market them on Christmas!
2) Travel. Folks that want to fork out the dough to see their team play in a bowl aren't also going to want to fork out the dough to travel 3 times to 3 different locations.
Let's face it. A playoff system is going to be primarily about the fans and secondarily about the programs and players. HOWEVER, let's talk about travel and time off. A playoff system would have to end within the first 2 weeks of January, would still have to give teams ample rest between games, and would have to limit travel by fans and teams alike.
The solution is turning the bowl sites into "regionals" if you will, and rewarding the higher ranked teams (who win) with the privilege of staying put after their win. (This is better explained later, keep reading! It's worth it!)
3) Bowl Tradition. This is where the mess happens. I love the tradition behind the Rose bowl...and it may be my youth, but I feel like it is the only bowl that actually boasts its tradition. Every other bowl is commercial first...Nokia Sugar Bowl, Tostitos Fiesta Bowl, FedEx Orange Bowl...
Sure Citi sponsors the Rose, but you don't hear people refer to it as the Citi Rose bowl....POINT BEING: Bowl Tradition is unfortunately a thing of the past, and clinging to it now is only hindering what us fans (for the most part) want to see.
The only solution here is to bite the bullet and support any change that brings about something better...
SO!
With all that said
The BCS top 14 breaks down as such:
3 SEC Teams
3 Big Ten Teams
2 ACC Teams
2 MWC Teams
and 1 each from the Big XII, WAC, and Pac-10
That's a fairly even smattering of teams don't you think?
Now, in previous years, though the BCS had its flaws, it consistantly placed 2 teams with the best "resume" in the national championship...and that's the BCS's current state. Who's to say however, that if a playoff was put in place, the two teams at the end wouldn't STILL be the teams with the best resume...?
A playoff should be a legitimization of a teams credentials...not a grab-happy opportunity to create upsets and such...
To begin with, in order to place teams where they belong at the end of the season, a LEGITIMATE ranking system must be in place. I don't see why it wouldn't be a great idea to piece together certain press members (AP polls), coaches (Coaches polls), and general football analysts together into a "ranking committee" very similar to the selection committee in place to put together the top 65 teams in college basketball for the NCAA Tournament in March.
With this said, I feel like playing 6 "playoff bowls" is the most efficient way to run through teams at the end of the season. This scenario uses the 4 existing BCS bowl games in addition to the Captial One and Cotton Bowl games as the 5th and 6th BCS Playoff bowls. The top 14 teams EXCLUDING THE BCS #1 and #2 in the country according to the "BCS Poll" (as based by a selection/ranking committee made up of everyone necessary to elicit a more universally agreeable poll) are placed in each bowl in traditional bracket form.
Bowls rotate in order of their "rankings" each season.
EXAMPLE:
2009-2010 bowl order is as such Orange, Fiesta, Sugar, Rose, (Cotton, Capital One)
2010-2011 bowl order would be Fiesta, Sugar, Rose, Cotton, Capital One, Orange
2012-2013 bowl order would be Sugar, Rose, Cotton, Capital One, Orange, Fiesta
etc...
SO using the final BCS top 14 to determine this year's Bowl Playoff Series.
...the opening round looks as such
FIRST ROUND: (14 Teams)
#1 Alabama (receives first round bye)
#8 v # 9 Orange Bowl: Ohio State vs. Georgia Tech (Dec 26)
#5 v #12 Fiesta Bowl: Florida vs. LSU (Dec 25)
#4 v #13 Sugar Bowl: TCU vs. Penn State (Dec 25)
#6 v #11 Rose Bowl: Boise State vs. Virginia Tech (Dec 25)
#3 v #14 Cotton Bowl: Cincinnati vs. BYU (Dec 25)
#7 v #10 Capital One Bowl: Oregon vs. Iowa (Dec 26)
#2 Texas (receives first round bye)
For the sake of argument lets extrapolate to rounds 2 & 3...
SECOND ROUND: (8 Teams)
(#8 v #9)Orange Bowl winner v. (#1)Alabama
Ohio State at Alabama [@ Alabama Jan 1]
(#4 v #13)Sugar Bowl winner v. (#5 v #12)Fiesta Bowl winner
Florida vs. TCU [@ Sugar Bowl Jan 2]
(#3 v #14)Cotton Bowl winner v. (#6 v #11)Rose Bowl winner
Boise State vs Cincinnati [@ Cotton Bowl Jan 2]
(#7 v #10)Capital One Bowl winner v. (#2) Texas
Oregon at Texas [@ Texas Jan 1]
Alabama beats Ohio State
TCU beats Florida
Cincinnati beats Boise State
Texas beats Oregon
FINAL FOUR:
Now we have the Final Four in Pasadena...
Alabama vs TCU (Jan 7th 3:00PM)
Cincinnati vs Texas (Jan 7th 7:00PM)
Alabama beats TCU
Texas beats Cincinnati
NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP:
Texas vs. Alabama (Jan 14th)
Pros:
* Full 14 team playoff system
* Only 1 extra week of football (Ample rest between games)
* BCS #1 & #2 rewarded for top spots by home games
* Higher ranked 1st Round winners rewarded by limited travel (same location)
* Power conferences retain multiple representatives
* Non-BCS conferences get representatives
Cons:
* Multiple rematches are possible
* Tradition is lost on the bowls
In this scenario, the round one match-ups serve up some interesting matchups. A Florida/LSU rematch would prove worth the price of admission, and a Georgia Tech offense vs. Ohio State defense game would be a sight to see.
If you took the time to read through this, thank you! All feedback is appreciated...
What say ye, the public?
Now this is a dead horse worth beating.
This is going to be an extremely long post, but bear with me and give me the benefit of the doubt. I'm looking for feedback and this seems like the kind of forum that I'll get it from.
You can go on for days and days about the pro's and con's. I have, and will probably continue to do so. For the time being, I have a hypothetical "Bowl Playoff Series" in mind that takes into account a few more factors that I feel most proposals leave out:
1) A playoff system with the seasons as they are now could last well into January, and nobody wants to see that. (Especially since seniors would lose their eligibility after a certain date).
The solution is a wild one, but bear with me.
This year's conference winners in the "Big 6" conferences were Cincinnati, Texas, Alabama, Ohio State, Oregon, and Georgia Tech. As a fan of college football, think to yourself which champions from this list played in the more exciting football games at the end of the season.
Trick question, they were all fairly exciting were they not?
So who's to say that the conference championship games Texas, Alabama, and Georgia Tech played in are even necessary in deciding a conference champion?
If Alabama and Florida played in a "pool" conference such as the Big 10, Pac-10 or Big East would their game not be a defacto championship game whenever it was played?
Though Big Red put up a fight, why does Texas need to play them in order to prove they were conference champions?
If we remove the conference championship games (which also means removing the divisions in each conference) each conference plays a pseudo-round robin where each game is of even more importance as they are playing against every team in the conference, rather than just 5 or 6.
This would allow the proposed playoff to play out a week earlier than the bowl games are played now...and if you ever thought about how genius it is to market college football games on Thanksgiving, imagine how much of a commercial thrill it would be to market them on Christmas!
2) Travel. Folks that want to fork out the dough to see their team play in a bowl aren't also going to want to fork out the dough to travel 3 times to 3 different locations.
Let's face it. A playoff system is going to be primarily about the fans and secondarily about the programs and players. HOWEVER, let's talk about travel and time off. A playoff system would have to end within the first 2 weeks of January, would still have to give teams ample rest between games, and would have to limit travel by fans and teams alike.
The solution is turning the bowl sites into "regionals" if you will, and rewarding the higher ranked teams (who win) with the privilege of staying put after their win. (This is better explained later, keep reading! It's worth it!)
3) Bowl Tradition. This is where the mess happens. I love the tradition behind the Rose bowl...and it may be my youth, but I feel like it is the only bowl that actually boasts its tradition. Every other bowl is commercial first...Nokia Sugar Bowl, Tostitos Fiesta Bowl, FedEx Orange Bowl...
Sure Citi sponsors the Rose, but you don't hear people refer to it as the Citi Rose bowl....POINT BEING: Bowl Tradition is unfortunately a thing of the past, and clinging to it now is only hindering what us fans (for the most part) want to see.
The only solution here is to bite the bullet and support any change that brings about something better...
SO!
With all that said
The BCS top 14 breaks down as such:
- Alabama
- Texas
- Cincinnati
- TCU
- Florida
- Boise State
- Oregon
- Ohio State
- Georgia Tech
- Iowa
- Virginia Tech
- LSU
- Penn State
- Brigham Young
3 SEC Teams
3 Big Ten Teams
2 ACC Teams
2 MWC Teams
and 1 each from the Big XII, WAC, and Pac-10
That's a fairly even smattering of teams don't you think?
Now, in previous years, though the BCS had its flaws, it consistantly placed 2 teams with the best "resume" in the national championship...and that's the BCS's current state. Who's to say however, that if a playoff was put in place, the two teams at the end wouldn't STILL be the teams with the best resume...?
A playoff should be a legitimization of a teams credentials...not a grab-happy opportunity to create upsets and such...
To begin with, in order to place teams where they belong at the end of the season, a LEGITIMATE ranking system must be in place. I don't see why it wouldn't be a great idea to piece together certain press members (AP polls), coaches (Coaches polls), and general football analysts together into a "ranking committee" very similar to the selection committee in place to put together the top 65 teams in college basketball for the NCAA Tournament in March.
With this said, I feel like playing 6 "playoff bowls" is the most efficient way to run through teams at the end of the season. This scenario uses the 4 existing BCS bowl games in addition to the Captial One and Cotton Bowl games as the 5th and 6th BCS Playoff bowls. The top 14 teams EXCLUDING THE BCS #1 and #2 in the country according to the "BCS Poll" (as based by a selection/ranking committee made up of everyone necessary to elicit a more universally agreeable poll) are placed in each bowl in traditional bracket form.
Bowls rotate in order of their "rankings" each season.
EXAMPLE:
2009-2010 bowl order is as such Orange, Fiesta, Sugar, Rose, (Cotton, Capital One)
2010-2011 bowl order would be Fiesta, Sugar, Rose, Cotton, Capital One, Orange
2012-2013 bowl order would be Sugar, Rose, Cotton, Capital One, Orange, Fiesta
etc...
SO using the final BCS top 14 to determine this year's Bowl Playoff Series.
...the opening round looks as such
FIRST ROUND: (14 Teams)
#1 Alabama (receives first round bye)
#8 v # 9 Orange Bowl: Ohio State vs. Georgia Tech (Dec 26)
#5 v #12 Fiesta Bowl: Florida vs. LSU (Dec 25)
#4 v #13 Sugar Bowl: TCU vs. Penn State (Dec 25)
#6 v #11 Rose Bowl: Boise State vs. Virginia Tech (Dec 25)
#3 v #14 Cotton Bowl: Cincinnati vs. BYU (Dec 25)
#7 v #10 Capital One Bowl: Oregon vs. Iowa (Dec 26)
#2 Texas (receives first round bye)
For the sake of argument lets extrapolate to rounds 2 & 3...
SECOND ROUND: (8 Teams)
(#8 v #9)Orange Bowl winner v. (#1)Alabama
Ohio State at Alabama [@ Alabama Jan 1]
(#4 v #13)Sugar Bowl winner v. (#5 v #12)Fiesta Bowl winner
Florida vs. TCU [@ Sugar Bowl Jan 2]
(#3 v #14)Cotton Bowl winner v. (#6 v #11)Rose Bowl winner
Boise State vs Cincinnati [@ Cotton Bowl Jan 2]
(#7 v #10)Capital One Bowl winner v. (#2) Texas
Oregon at Texas [@ Texas Jan 1]
Alabama beats Ohio State
TCU beats Florida
Cincinnati beats Boise State
Texas beats Oregon
FINAL FOUR:
Now we have the Final Four in Pasadena...
Alabama vs TCU (Jan 7th 3:00PM)
Cincinnati vs Texas (Jan 7th 7:00PM)
Alabama beats TCU
Texas beats Cincinnati
NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP:
Texas vs. Alabama (Jan 14th)
Pros:
* Full 14 team playoff system
* Only 1 extra week of football (Ample rest between games)
* BCS #1 & #2 rewarded for top spots by home games
* Higher ranked 1st Round winners rewarded by limited travel (same location)
* Power conferences retain multiple representatives
* Non-BCS conferences get representatives
Cons:
* Multiple rematches are possible
* Tradition is lost on the bowls
In this scenario, the round one match-ups serve up some interesting matchups. A Florida/LSU rematch would prove worth the price of admission, and a Georgia Tech offense vs. Ohio State defense game would be a sight to see.
If you took the time to read through this, thank you! All feedback is appreciated...
What say ye, the public?
Upvote
0