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Coaches leaving after signing day discussion

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Jagdaddy said:
Yes, because if the opportunity comes up later, he had all relevant information available to him at the time of his commitment decision.
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What is the difference between those 3 dates? I'm missing any distinction other than "how it feels". I agree it would "feel" different in May but the net result is identical.

Tom Herman has been trying to leave for two years. So has Ed, two guys with a much bigger impact on RB success at OSU than Stan Drayton. Are they being jerks by not openly advertising this to recruits so they have "all relevant information available" before verballing or signing? Or is that fairly unavoidable if you wish to excel and stay employed until your promotion?
 
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MaxBuck said:
Actually, pretty much the whole staff does get fired after three rough years these days in the "real world." One reason I work for myself now ...

But your point is nonetheless well taken.
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It probably is a weak one, but the main point is that coaches have to be nomads to survive. You have no job security even if you do a great job. You have to be looking to relocate constantly just to preserve your career. There are very few Jim Tressel's out there as head coaches and that ended in a flash.
 
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jwinslow said:
It probably is a weak one, but the main point is that coaches have to be nomads to survive. You have no job security even if you do a great job. You have to be looking to relocate constantly just to preserve your career. There are very few Jim Tressel's out there as head coaches and that ended in a flash.
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Not only that, but in "the real world" when one is looking to a better position at another employer, one does not advertise the fact until one has accepted said better position. That same advice may also apply for coaches, in which case Drayton was best-advised not to tell UFM that he was looking at the Bears job, and certainly had no obligation to tell Weber.

At the same time, it's hard not to feel bad for Weber. Not sure what to think about Weber's coach, as the coach's role in possibly urging Weber to the Wolverines hasn't been revealed with any certainty.
 
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jwinslow said:
What is the difference between those 3 dates? I'm missing any distinction other than "how it feels". I agree it would "feel" different in May but the net result is identical.

Tom Herman has been trying to leave for two years. So has Ed, two guys with a much bigger impact on RB success at OSU than Stan Drayton. Are they being jerks by not openly advertising this to recruits so they have "all relevant information available" before verballing or signing? Or is that fairly unavoidable if you wish to excel and stay employed until your promotion?
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The difference is that it literally could have changed his decision if given the information. So the net change could be an entirely different school for the next four years/rest of his life. Other than that difference, not much.

Having said that, if Drayton leaving wouldn't have caused him changing his mind, THEN the "when" of him leaving would not have mattered. But how are we to say that he would be a Buckeye if he knew Stan wasn't going to be his coach? We can't.
 
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UpNorth_Buckeye said:
The difference is that it literally could have changed his decision if given the information. So the net change could be an entirely different school for the next four years/rest of his life. Other than that difference, not much.
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All 3 of my dates are AFTER signing day with zero coaching of Weber by Drayton. The only distinction is the emotional reaction to it.
Having said that, if Drayton leaving wouldn't have caused him changing his mind, THEN the "when" of him leaving would not have mattered. But how are we to say that he would be a Buckeye if he knew Stan wasn't going to be his coach? We can't.
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Again, if Drayton was hoping to get an NFL gig or college OC job this offseason, do you think he should have been telling Weber this all along?

People keep approaching this backwards. Of course Weber's feelings are hurt and of course it feels crappy, but you don't tell your clients and boss that you are leaving until you leave. The alternative is classy but a very, very stupid way of operating as a recruiter and will cause you to hemorrhage clients/recruits and possibly get fired (or at least kill your reputation for future hires)
 
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jwinslow said:
All 3 of my dates are AFTER signing day with zero coaching of Weber by Drayton. The only distinction is the emotional reaction to it.Again, if Drayton was hoping to get an NFL gig or college OC job this offseason, do you think he should have been telling Weber this all along?

People keep approaching this backwards. Of course Weber's feelings are hurt and of course it feels crappy, but you don't tell your clients and boss that you are leaving until you leave. The alternative is classy but a very, very stupid way of operating as a recruiter and will cause you to hemorrhage clients/recruits and possibly get fired (or at least kill your reputation for future hires)
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You see in your example you're saying "assuming Weber would stick with OSU knowing that Drayton could be leaving right now." I'm saying what if with this knowledge he would have chosen Michigan? THAT'S the big difference. Because I agree, if he stays regardless then it doesn't matter. But what if he chose differently?
 
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UpNorth_Buckeye said:
You see in your example you're saying "assuming Weber would stick with OSU knowing that Drayton could be leaving right now." I'm saying what if with this knowledge he would have chosen Michigan? THAT'S the big difference. Because I agree, if he stays regardless then it doesn't matter. But what if he chose differently?
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And what if the Bears don't hire Drayton?
 
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maximumblitz said:
The injustices resulting from the power imbalance between players and the NCAA is being addressed, as we speak, by legions of attorneys who are acting on behalf of players like Mike Weber.

On the other side, I don't recall reading too much about Stan Drayton being involved in the recruiting at the end. Evidently, UFM was doing what he could to soften the blow.

Fortunately, Mike Weber will have the benefit of a good RB coach because no one in his right mind would turn down a chance to run a pre-season Heisman candidate behind an Ed Warinner line, to coach a team that will be favored to repeat the title run, and to have the incoming RB recruit pipeline of tOSU.
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Thing is, the recruiting part of the process doesn't have a power imbalance. It's after the LOI is signed and schools can dictate degrees, control transfers, withdraw scholarships, etc. that the situation becomes very imbalanced.
People can take issue with the integrity and perceived honesty, but that's not a power imbalance. Weber, his family, and his advisers were also free to misinform and lie willingly -- and they did. It doesn't bother me that he took that Official. It doesn't bother me that Drayton moved up the ladder.

bigdog3300 said:
Well said.

To have the same expectations for a 17 year old kid and a program like OSU is a little extreme to me. I'd have no problems with this if Drayton informed Weber and his family of the potential of him leaving, and hey maybe that happened and we aren't privy to it but based on the reaction by Weber I'd say I don't think that happened.

We can all love and hail our favorite program but that doesn't mean for a second that OSU is a perfect being without mistakes. No amount of 'trust the coaches' and 'this is the cost of being the best' will cover the fact of some, IMO, unethical recruiting tactics.
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How many of the coaches interviewed for jobs in the last 2 years?
Withers, Fickell, Herman, Drayton, Warriner, Vrabel just off the top of my head. If you need to inform every recruit about every job opening and interview in this career field... you'll be doing it all the time.
This is a non-issue everywhere else.
 
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Listen... we've determined, as the appropriate governing body, that these five guys are eligible to play in this game, despite the fact they will be ineligible to start next season.

Oh.. no... please.. we're gonna take the high road. I mean.... who cares if we win a football game? I mean.. my job doesn't at all depend on that. We're gonna sit em just because it's the right thing to do.

----
What a goddamned joke.
 
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UpNorth_Buckeye said:
You see in your example you're saying "assuming Weber would stick with OSU knowing that Drayton could be leaving right now." I'm saying what if with this knowledge he would have chosen Michigan? THAT'S the big difference. Because I agree, if he stays regardless then it doesn't matter. But what if he chose differently?
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No I didn't say anything of that sort. I gave three dates after signing day that would cause people to feel differently about the exact same situation: Weber signing with a coach that isn't going to coach him at all.

Obviously he could have chosen Michigan if Drayton broadcasted his aspirations to leave before signing day. Will you now answer my question? Yet again, is that how Drayton should go about his business as a recruiter, warning kids like BKB did above? When is it his obligation to warn recruits that he wants to leave? Is that a smart way to go about his business? Will Urban continue to employ him?

Herman has been on the fast track for a head gig since the day he walked in the door.
Ed has tried to get a head coaching gig the last two offseasons.
Zach Smith is a rising star and will get a big time gig in the near future.
Chris Ash is not here to coach for years. He is here to turn around a top program and land a big time gig elsewhere.

So when should those coaches be warning their recruits about their plans?
 
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