Coaches leaving after signing day discussion

[DiamondBuck]

Texas signee Du'Vonta Lampkin upset after position coach leaves
http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/95877/texas-commit-lampkin-upset-after-position-coach-leaves

 

[matcar]

Absolutely not, but you don't make professional decisions based on how it will make people feel.

Not sure I completely agree with this. If you don't make some decisions based upon how people feel you will eventually burn too many bridges. As we all know, this is a relationship business.

But again, I don't really have a dog in the fight and while I think this should have been handled differently, I understand that this is just my IMO.

 

[UpNorth_Buckeye]

So now Michael Weber is a girl - our daughter even (you know just to skew the emotional connection) - and Drayton is giving her/him STDs?

Or it was an example to show how timing is everything, and some people (I suppose including youself) still can't seem to see how it could possibly be deceitful or wrong, because you know it was OSU doing it. So I figured I'd relate it to another situation where not being truthful could lead to an upset party due to lack of known information. I could replace the example with one that won't make you a sad puppy with hurt feelings if you want if it helps you understand how something your beloved University did could possibly be wrong. Anything to help, just let me know.

 

[buckeyebri]

I don't think you are understanding what has people upset.

It has nothing to do with anyone interviewing, or accepting, any type of position. That's an understood risk. The issue here is the manner in it was done due to the fact it seems extremely far fetched to say Drayton did not expect to land the job. Informing every recruit of every interview is one thing; informing the guy you've recruited, and his family, on the pitches and promises you've given that family only to take a job most believe he was fully aware he was going to accept is another. Yes this is commonly done but that doesn't make it right or something many of us support.

Seeing as all reports to-date say he hadn't interviewed for the job prior to Thursday, the day after signing day, he was supposed to say what?

 

[bigdog3300]

Seeing as all reports to-date say he hadn't interviewed for the job prior to Thursday, the day after signing day, he was supposed to say what?

Buy that if you wish - again, if you believe he was notified of wanting to be interviewed, having that scheduled, interviewing, getting an offer, negotiating and accepting in the time you are suggesting...to each their own. That would have all had to have happened within 24 hours. Possible? Sure. Unlikely? Yes.

Or, the more likely option of Fox knew very clearly who he wanted on his staff and made the offer and Drayton agreed but stayed on staff thru NSD in order to not disrupt the class. Let's not kid ourselves, we know what the more likely option is and it's why we see coaches leave the day after a few times a year.

 

[buckeyesin07]

The Drayton/Weber situation happened at 50 schools this offseason. The only time it is a story is when a butthurt HS HC with an axe to grind can't keep his deceitful mouth shut.

There were a group of people trying to undermine Ohio State in the most deceitful manner possible down the homestretch of the Weber recruitment.

Those same people are the ones raising the most hell right now. They doth protest too much, me thinks.

This.

 

[Mike80]

Buy that if you wish - again, if you believe he was notified of wanting to be interviewed, having that scheduled, interviewing, getting an offer, negotiating and accepting in the time you are suggesting...to each their own. That would have all had to have happened within 24 hours. Possible? Sure. Unlikely? Yes.

Or, the more likely option of Fox knew very clearly who he wanted on his staff and made the offer and Drayton agreed but stayed on staff thru NSD in order to not disrupt the class. Let's not kid ourselves, we know what the more likely option is and it's why we see coaches leave the day after a few times a year.

John Fox isn't an idiot, he isn't hiring anyone without interviewing them first.

Also, Harbaugh has NFL contacts. You know his agent or someone within that circle would have at least hinted that Drayton was leaving the school that was heavily recruiting a kid he desperately wanted to get....logically it seems somewhat clear that Drayton may have been looking, but hadn't signed on or agreed to anything until after the interview.

BTW - my 2nd govy job happened within 24 hours of the interview. That's from being scheduled for it, interviewing and then receiving the contingent offer letter from DFAS. If the government can move that fast, sure as hell an NFL can if it wishes too, especially with a strong personality head coach like John Fox.

 

[RB07OSU]

Buy that if you wish - again, if you believe he was notified of wanting to be interviewed, having that scheduled, interviewing, getting an offer, negotiating and accepting in the time you are suggesting...to each their own. That would have all had to have happened within 24 hours. Possible? Sure. Unlikely? Yes.

Or, the more likely option of Fox knew very clearly who he wanted on his staff and made the offer and Drayton agreed but stayed on staff thru NSD in order to not disrupt the class. Let's not kid ourselves, we know what the more likely option is and it's why we see coaches leave the day after a few times a year.

To me, it is pretty simple. If Drayton knew that he was being offered the job and would take it prior to NLOID, he should have told Michael that. If everything was truly in flux and he did not know, then no reason to speculate.

And the reason I bolded that portion is because that is what I think we all assume and for good reason. Coaches leave immediately after NLOID all the time and it is no freaking coincidence. You just don't have an interview and a subsequent offer by chance the day after the ink dries...the odds are very low anyways. I don't really give a crap about what other schools are doing either. Sure we get more negative publicity over it but I will take it considering that the other schools are not getting the attention for the same thing due to us coming off as the hottest name in college football right now and in recent history. I would much rather be Ohio State than UCLA or any other school. But part of that territory is not stooping so low to gain an advantage we don't need. Certain gray areas/semi-shady tactics exist in successful recruiting...off the top of my head, the "Your our #1 guy!" spiel is pretty common and a half-truth...usually there is not a huge degree of separation amongst top prospects. But for me, flat out lying to a kid goes well beyond that rhetoric and should not be tolerated at any university, particularly mine. I cannot get all fired up with our situation because there is no way to tell for sure that is what happened. But I will be darned if I blindly assume that the timing is as some are trying to portray.

 

[bigdog3300]

John Fox isn't an idiot, he isn't hiring anyone without interviewing them first.

Also, Harbaugh has NFL contacts. You know his agent or someone within that circle would have at least hinted that Drayton was leaving the school that was heavily recruiting a kid he desperately wanted to get....logically it seems somewhat clear that Drayton may have been looking, but hadn't signed on or agreed to anything until after the interview.

BTW - my 2nd govy job happened within 24 hours of the interview. That's from being scheduled for it, interviewing and then receiving the contingent offer letter from DFAS. If the government can move that fast, sure as hell an NFL can if it wishes too, especially with a strong personality head coach like John Fox.

Like I said - is it possible? Sure. But is it likely? Still, no. We know Weber was talking with Drayton until 1 AM on Weds. and that he was with the staff with the LOI's coming in that morning. He accepted the job, or I should say it was announced he accepted the job, by Thursday afternoon. So did it just happen to work out in a perfect world where his agent got notified that night for the job? Bit too coincidental for me. Especially since this has been a trend....let's not be those type of fans that pretends things just happened to work out this way. We ridiculed other programs, including Meyer's at UF, when this happened before.

I also don't buy into this 'Harbaugh would have known!' talk. Do we really think NFL guys are jumping to give Harbaugh information? Sure didn't seem like he had many friends in the league, and I doubt those guys are that interested in a recruiting battle for a high school kid, they've got some bigger fish to fry.

I think I've exhausted my thoughts on this topic, but I'll just leave it at this....we've mocked many other fan bases for their hypocritical or outlandish takes on their situations and now it's on the other foot. We can imagine our program is different than all the others, that our coaches would never lie or deceive a recruit and our coach only left when suddenly an NFL job came up within hours after NSD and it was the most ironic coincidence ever.....I'm just not one of those people buying that.

 

[Mike80]

Like I said - is it possible? Sure. But is it likely? Still, no. We know Weber was talking with Drayton until 1 AM on Weds. and that he was with the staff with the LOI's coming in that morning. He accepted the job, or I should say it was announced he accepted the job, by Thursday afternoon. So did it just happen to work out in a perfect world where his agent got notified that night for the job? Bit too coincidental for me. Especially since this has been a trend....let's not be those type of fans that pretends things just happened to work out this way. We ridiculed other programs, including Meyer's at UF, when this happened before.

I also don't buy into this 'Harbaugh would have known!' talk. Do we really think NFL guys are jumping to give Harbaugh information? Sure didn't seem like he had many friends in the league, and I doubt those guys are that interested in a recruiting battle for a high school kid, they've got some bigger fish to fry.

I think I've exhausted my thoughts on this topic, but I'll just leave it at this....we've mocked many other fan bases for their hypocritical or outlandish takes on their situations and now it's on the other foot. We can imagine our program is different than all the others, that our coaches would never lie or deceive a recruit and our coach only left when suddenly an NFL job came up within hours after NSD and it was the most ironic coincidence ever.....I'm just not one of those people buying that.

You say 'we' like it's 100% across the board. Meanwhile, some of us realize these things happen in all walks of life.

Weber can either allow this (and the people whispering poison in his ear) to direct him or he can grow up, get over it and get on with developing to the best of his abilities.

 

[RB07OSU]

You say 'we' like it's 100% across the board. Meanwhile, some of us realize these things happen in all walks of life.

Weber can either allow this (and the people whispering poison in his ear) to direct him or he can grow up, get over it and get on with developing to the best of his abilities.

Rhetoric like this is what makes me squeamish about our reaction here. A kid is potentially lied to about an integral part as to why he committed here and we respond by saying "Grow up." He is an 18 year old kid who just made the biggest decision of his life. Perhaps he is just having buyer's remorse but perhaps Drayton was the basis of the bargain to come to OSU? I don't think that is the case but I don't know. Having gone through being recruited in a couple sports, I can say that my position coach that recruited me was a huge factor...if one assured me they would be there and left the second the ink dried, I would have been absolutely pissed. I have a million reasons objectively as to why he should come to OSU no matter what, but so do about another dozen schools and those reasons could be pitched to any recruit. Everything in recruiting comes down to relationships and trust...so if both are broken, then yeah...a kid has a right to be hurt.

That being said, I do think that Weber will fit in great here and that TSUN was not the place for him regardless. I hope he stays the course and sees this through in Cbus. We have had many players who were ready to abandon ship who turned it around and came up big for us...usually not this early but why not just make it a success story that Urban tells cloying sports journalists at a presser? EzE had to be talked into coming here, Kenny Guiton and Cardale Jones had zero confidence from UFM and both were fantastic, and the list could go on. The fact is that life is never, ever fair and you just have to roll with the punches and rise above. As much as I do not like what happened here and I will not try to excuse us on a whim, Michael can still achieve everything he wants when he committed if he responds properly.

 

[Mike80]

Rhetoric like this is what makes me squeamish about our reaction here. A kid is potentially lied to about an integral part as to why he committed here and we respond by saying "Grow up." He is an 18 year old kid who just made the biggest decision of his life. Perhaps he is just having buyer's remorse but perhaps Drayton was the basis of the bargain to come to OSU? I don't think that is the case but I don't know. Having gone through being recruited in a couple sports, I can say that my position coach that recruited me was a huge factor...if one assured me they would be there and left the second the ink dried, I would have been absolutely pissed. I have a million reasons objectively as to why he should come to OSU no matter what, but so do about another dozen schools and those reasons could be pitched to any recruit. Everything in recruiting comes down to relationships and trust...so if both are broken, then yeah...a kid has a right to be hurt.

It's not just rhetoric, it's reality. He can either move beyond this - i.e. grow up - or he can let it dominate him to the point where he's just bitter. I've said that from moment one of this stupid non-story.

And to point it out again - no one has actually said that Drayton promised this kid that he would be here. I think that's a huge assumption on Weber's (or more likely Weber's handlers) part, especially given what we know about the coaching profession.

If he's immature enough to let the actions of another person prevent him from going to a place he's been accepted too, that's entirely on him. Like I said, he needs to grow up, learn from it, and move on.

That being said, I do think that Weber will fit in great here and that TSUN was not the place for him regardless. I hope he stays the course and sees this through in Cbus. We have had many players who were ready to abandon ship who turned it around and came up big for us...usually not this early but why not just make it a success story that Urban tells cloying sports journalists at a presser? EzE had to be talked into coming here, Kenny Guiton and Cardale Jones had zero confidence from UFM and both were fantastic, and the list could go on. The fact is that life is never, ever fair and you just have to roll with the punches and rise above. As much as I do not like what happened here and I will not try to excuse us on a whim, Michael can still achieve everything he wants when he committed if he responds properly.

I'm still just not 100% sold that there was anything more than a person moving to another job and that the coaches and parents of this kid are grandstanding. Believe what you will of course. I think this entire episode is a story because it's Ohio State and scUM alumni are making the most of it.

Too bad they don't put up this much of a fight on the football field.

And if Weber truly doesn't want to be here, it's time for Ohio State to let him out of his LOI and bring in a kid who wants to be here.

 

[RB07OSU]

It's not just rhetoric, it's reality. He can either move beyond this - i.e. grow up - or he can let it dominate him to the point where he's just bitter. I've said that from moment one of this stupid non-story.

And to point it out again - no one has actually said that Drayton promised this kid that he would be here. I think that's a huge assumption on Weber's (or more likely Weber's handlers) part, especially given what we know about the coaching profession.

If he's immature enough to let the actions of another person prevent him from going to a place he's been accepted too, that's entirely on him. Like I said, he needs to grow up, learn from it, and move on.



I'm still just not 100% sold that there was anything more than a person moving to another job and that the coaches and parents of this kid are grandstanding. Believe what you will of course. I think this entire episode is a story because it's Ohio State and scUM alumni are making the most of it.

Too bad they don't put up this much of a fight on the football field.

And if Weber truly doesn't want to be here, it's time for Ohio State to let him out of his LOI and bring in a kid who wants to be here.

Growing up may be refusing to allow someone to lie to you and still show up anyways, whether he goes up north or elsewhere. Everyone keeps comparing this to the "real/corporate world." Well, the law works like this: If someone knows or has reason to know they made a false statement to someone, which they intend the person to rely on and the person does in fact rely on, that is the definition of fraud. That also applies to hiring, which is the applicable metaphor everyone is using. IF that happened, then it really is not ok and I sincerely hope every regular poster on here would agree.

My issue is that we are just assuming something that flies in the face of what likely happened. Yes, I do not know Drayton did not happen to get an interview AND job offer simultaneously the day after NLOID. However, I would be shocked if that uncanny timing is actually what went down. In all likelihood, he knew the offer was there and that he would take it the day after signing. That alone is not sufficient to draw ire. BUT, if he or the staff conveyed any message to Weber assuring that Drayton would be there next year, then that is deplorable imo. I do not know that happened and until I do, I will withhold judgment. But on the other hand, I will not blindly defend our staff when something seems awry. I'm not going to revoke my alumni status or fandom if that happened, but I will also not defend such practices. Our fan-base here has been outraged over this exact practice, yet I see the same posters turn a blind eye to it when our staff may have done it. I just won't stand for it.

 

[Mike80]

Growing up may be refusing to allow someone to lie to you and still show up anyways, whether he goes up north or elsewhere. Everyone keeps comparing this to the "real/corporate world." Well, the law works like this: If someone knows or has reason to know they made a false statement to someone, which they intend the person to rely on and the person does in fact rely on, that is the definition of fraud. That also applies to hiring, which is the applicable metaphor everyone is using. IF that happened, then it really is not ok and I sincerely hope every regular poster on here would agree.

Except the only conditions within his signed contract, i.e. his letter of intent, is that Ohio State will pay for him to matriculate at The Ohio State University and play for the football team. There is absolutely nothing in there about who will be coaching him, nor is there anything about a coach being prevented from taking another job. Legally, unless they have something from Drayton in writing saying he was going to stay this year when Weber got there, everything else is probably hearsay at best, and a rumor at worst.

as for the rest of it - how do you prevent someone from "lying"? Again, do we know that Drayton actually lied? Hell, even if we assume (that word again) that he had informal contacts with the Bears prior to NLOID, did he actually know he was getting the job? And if so, does that constitute a 'lie' to the point to cause this much drama?

Absolutely not. This unfortunate development (not unfortunate for losing Drayton, unfortunate because Weber and his handlers appear to feel aggrieved), isn't that uncommon and is stretching the boundaries of logic to even call it unethical given what we know now. things could develop, there could be a smoking gun of some sort that we don't know about yet, but as it stands right now, Weber thinks he's hurt, his High School coach is making an arse of himself and the usual ambulance chasing lawyers are working for him "pro-bono".

I do feel sorry for this kid - he clearly has absolutely no one around him that is going to take a rational stance on this situation. that is the depth of desperation scUM fans have found themselves these days.

My issue is that we are just assuming something that flies in the face of what likely happened. Yes, I do not know Drayton did not happen to get an interview AND job offer simultaneously the day after NLOID. However, I would be shocked if that uncanny timing is actually what went down. In all likelihood, he knew the offer was there and that he would take it the day after signing. That alone is not sufficient to draw ire. BUT, if he or the staff conveyed any message to Weber assuring that Drayton would be there next year, then that is deplorable imo. I do not know that happened and until I do, I will withhold judgment. But on the other hand, I will not blindly defend our staff when something seems awry. I'm not going to revoke my alumni status or fandom if that happened, but I will also not defend such practices. Our fan-base here has been outraged over this exact practice, yet I see the same posters turn a blind eye to it when our staff may have done it. I just won't stand for it.

There's a lot of assumptions going on both ways. Let's not act like it's only the people who are defending UFM, Ohio State, etc etc etc.

 

[RB07OSU]

Except the only conditions within his signed contract, i.e. his letter of intent, is that Ohio State will pay for him to matriculate at The Ohio State University and play for the football team. There is absolutely nothing in there about who will be coaching him, nor is there anything about a coach being prevented from taking another job. Legally, unless they have something from Drayton in writing saying he was going to stay this year when Weber got there, everything else is probably hearsay at best, and a rumor at worst.

as for the rest of it - how do you prevent someone from "lying"? Again, do we know that Drayton actually lied? Hell, even if we assume (that word again) that he had informal contacts with the Bears prior to NLOID, did he actually know he was getting the job? And if so, does that constitute a 'lie' to the point to cause this much drama?

Absolutely not. This unfortunate development (not unfortunate for losing Drayton, unfortunate because Weber and his handlers appear to feel aggrieved), isn't that uncommon and is stretching the boundaries of logic to even call it unethical given what we know now. things could develop, there could be a smoking gun of some sort that we don't know about yet, but as it stands right now, Weber thinks he's hurt, his High School coach is making an arse of himself and the usual ambulance chasing lawyers are working for him "pro-bono".

I do feel sorry for this kid - he clearly has absolutely no one around him that is going to take a rational stance on this situation. that is the depth of desperation scUM fans have found themselves these days.



There's a lot of assumptions going on both ways. Let's not act like it's only the people who are defending UFM, Ohio State, etc etc etc.

As to the first point: The basis of the bargain goes towards the spirit of the contract, which means that there is more than what is just in writing. Sure, he signed a K to play football at Ohio State under the terms you stated (maybe, I just would have to read the K to actually know the terms...just giving you the benefit of the doubt here). But if there was anything said that Drayton would be here and his commitment was substantially given on that assurance, then it disrupts the spirit of the agreement. This is a form K that every athlete signs, yet the basis of the bargain is different for almost every athlete. At that point, specific performance (i.e. "You'll do it anyways") seems an awful lot like something this country does not want to repeat.

As to the second point: Adjectives like "unfortunate" won't make me soften on the situation. His coach has watched numerous players from Cass Tech go to Columbus...why would he wait until now to raise an issue? If he had an ax to grind, I suspect he would have been publicly mad over Damon Webb's recruitment or earlier.

We usually agree on everything Mike and that is the bee's knees. I really do hope you realize I am fighting so hard on this in spite of my relationship with other posters. I am crossing fingers that our hands are clean here. It is just really frustrating to see everyone assume we are the innocent party when the same people assumed otherwise when Urban was at UF. Telling a recruit that you had a subjective dream he was committing to you is much different than objectively lying to a kid about where his coach will be in the near future. I hope Weber ends up here as another success story under Urban but I cannot pretend he does not have a reason to be upset here.