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- Thread starter NFBuck
- Start date
Zippercat
Legend
Take it from a long term (before this year...I moved out of Ohio) season ticket holder, the damage to the fanbase took place long before this. I think it boils down to two things: (1) Lack of fans with money. Sure, there are still people in Cleveland who can afford to buy baseball tickets....but there are not near as many of them as were there 20 years ago (Yes, next year will be the 20th anniversary of the opening of Indians Park at Gateway--that was the original name of the park). See all those empty loges? Congress changed the tax laws regarding business entertainment deductions and business after business left town; the Tribe now gives away a "free" loge for a game to every season ticket holder. The population of the Greater Cleveland area has been declining for over 30 years, but the number of residents living below the poverty level has been increasing. (2) Dolans. There is a resentment of the Dolan family which is almost as strong and deep today as the feelings of the average Buckeye fan about scUM. Year after year Forbes has written, and the local TV and radio stations have repeated for all those fans who don't/can't read Forbes, that the Indians are one of MLB's most profitable teams. Instead of keeping the few good players they obtain, the Indians under Dolans have traded them. I have heard fan after fan, including in 2006 when they left Lofton at 3B in Boston instead of going to the World Series, claim that they refuse to buy tickets while Dolans own the team. I know, that sounds a bit anecdotal. But start asking your friends and others why they don't buy tickets. I bet at least 3 or 4 out of 10 will drop Dolans' name in the conversation.
Till this team is sold, what you see today is what we'll see tomorrow......and the day after that......and the day after that.....
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Oh, I fully understand that. But, this was a chance to start to build back in the right direction. Winning that detroit series I thin would have shown that they were for real this year, and more people would start buying in. I know getting fan support back is a long term project, I just think they squandered a big chance to start moving that way.
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This is what drives me crazy. Dolan had the misfortune of buying the Indians on the high. He actually lost money the first few seasons trying to keep the winning going (gotta love Chuck Finely).
While everyone loves Jacobs, he was the smartest man in Cleveland. He had an ironclad rule that he MUST make money each year. He would never spend more than the team made. He saw the future, he knew he wouldn't afford all the star players that were due huge contracts. So he sold high and got out as the man that built Jacobs field and brought the glory years of the Indians of the 90s.
But here is the dirtly lil secret, if he never sold the Indians we would all be screaming about how cheap Jacobs is as he would have done the same things Dolan did.
So I don't blame the Dolans, it is just how baseball has always been. I just wish the basic fan realized this and didn't blame Dolan, and just learned to enjoy a scrappy team that has done better than it should. Will we make the playoffs? Heck, will we make the playoffs and then lose in the wildcard game and go right back home? Most likely... but it still is fun watching us get there and who knows... maybe we get some breaks and make some noise in the playoffs.
Maybe that is the underlying problem with Cleveland fans... we don't have hope anymore and can't enjoy something fun that happens because we expect the worst to happen.
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Zippercat
Legend
Agree with all you say, except that I'm not so sure that Dolan actually lost much, if anything, the first few seasons he owned the team. And I believe that Jacob did lose money for a few years while he rebuilt the team.
I always laugh when people ask me why Dolan has kept Mark Shapiro around all these years since the team has never really won anything under Shap. I then ask: if you're the owner and your goal is to make money, did Shapiro do a bad job? John Hart never won a World Series anywhere, but is widely respected as a "winning" GM.
The only thing that I blame Dolan/Shapiro for is about 10 years of just awful draft picks. I don't believe that scouting was the problem. Throughout that period, the team constantly brought in via trade and minor free agent deals players who had talent, as best illustrated by the fact that the vast majority of them had ML careers after they left Cleveland. They knew how to judge baseball talent, even in the low minors, when trading for it. Instead, it seemed that the Indians: (a) drafted players for signability vs high ceiling talent, with for many years a signing budget that ranked at the bottom of MLB; and (b) looked for a type of pitcher (undersized, groundball/control types) who they thought was less likely to develop injury problems.
This team, unlike last season, is fun to watch. They've already done way more than I ever dreamed they would this year and they could be better yet next year.
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They are hanging in there. Beat ChiSox today 3-1. I think Perez must have money on Tampa to make the playoffs 
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Right on the money, Zip. How they are even in the conversation in Sept shows what a good manager Francona is. Smokin' Tokin' Chris Perez is their fucking closer! That guys sucks! Swisher, Cabrera, Chiz and Stubbs aren't even hitting their weight!
Yet only 1.5 games out of the playoffs with 15 games to go.
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6 more games at home, with the White Sox and Astros, so that leaves 7 road games with KC and Minnesota to probably determine what chance we have. Scrappy bunch, no doubt.
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