Cleveland Indians (2011 Season)

[NFBuck]

Death spiral. I predict 76-86.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcfcRxKKVzc"]Major League / Indianer von Cleveland - Intro - YouTube[/ame]

 

[NFBuck]

 

[JCOSU86]

Death spiral. I predict 76-86.

I have to agree. After a 28-8 start, 38-78. Not good.

Holy shit! Seattle even has 4 errors.

This team is comical. I think OSU could take a 3 game series from them.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

After gaining some momentum by winning game one of yesterday's double header on a walk-off home run, and with the season on the line, the Indians proceed to give up 21 runs and 33 hits to the worst offensive team in baseball (by far). Before the past two games, the Mariners were averaging 3.39 runs (last) and 7.76 hits per game (last), with a team batting average of .232 (last), a team on base percentage of .295 (last), and a team slugging percentage of .346 (last).

To look at it another way - in their thirteen games from July 2nd to July 17th, the Mariners scored just 20 runs ... and they scored 21 in their last two to bury the Tribe.

 

[NFBuck]

I have to agree. After a 28-8 start, 38-78. Not good.

Holy shit! Seattle even has 4 errors.

This team is comical. I think OSU could take a 3 game series from them.

I think your #'s are a little off, this team peaked W% at 22-8, and + .500 at 30-15...since 30-15 they've gone 33-49 (.402), which given all the injuries, I think is a pretty accurate gauge on where this team is right now. With 35 games to go, I'd guess 13-22 to 15-20 would be likely ending the season at 76-86 to 78-84. Either one would be over what most expected, but it was buoyed by an unsustainable fast start.

Major help needed in the OF this offseason. I don't think they'll pick up Glass Joe's option, so that leaves you Brantley-?-Choo starting out there. I don't think Zeke is an everyday player. Do they move Brantley to CF despite his defensive deficiencies and sign/trade for a corner OF? LaBusta will never be anything more than an AAAA guy, but I doubt they give up on him yet. Unless Santana moves to 1B and they pick up somebody to platoon with Marson. Should be an interesting offseason, but they need to make some moves if they want to be competitive next year, zero doubt about that.

Pitching wise, if Ubaldo-O can unfuck himself, I think they're pretty set rotation-wise, but there's a looming problem at the back of the bullpen.

After gaining some momentum by winning game one of yesterday's double header on a walk-off home run, and with the season on the line, the Indians proceed to give up 21 runs and 33 hits to the worst offensive team in baseball (by far). Before the past two games, the Mariners were averaging 3.39 runs (last) and 7.76 hits per game (last), with a team batting average of .232 (last), a team on base percentage of .295 (last), and a team slugging percentage of .346 (last).

To look at it another way - in their thirteen games from July 2nd to July 17th, the Mariners scored just 20 runs ... and they scored 21 in their last two to bury the Tribe.

Just a pathetic week of baseball. The fucking Mariners.

 

[tsteele316]

Ubaldo is going to suck the rest of the year. His mechanics are all clusterfucked because of his hip flexor injury. They are going to have to fix him mechanically in the offseason.

I hope this team decides to cut bait with either Hafner or Laporta. Neither one is worth a shit offensively. Hafner had one good month before reverting to his 2008-2010 shell of a DH.

If this team could acquire one good bat, they could actually be somewhat of a contender.

what will be very interesting is the fact that both perezes are arbitration eligible this offseason. one has been very good, and one has been a bag of shit.

 

[AKAK]

I think your #'s are a little off, this team peaked W% at 22-8, and + .500 at 30-15...since 30-15 they've gone 33-49 (.402), which given all the injuries, I think is a pretty accurate gauge on where this team is right now. With 35 games to go, I'd guess 13-22 to 15-20 would be likely ending the season at 76-86 to 78-84. Either one would be over what most expected, but it was buoyed by an unsustainable fast start.

Major help needed in the OF this offseason. I don't think they'll pick up Glass Joe's option, so that leaves you Brantley-?-Choo starting out there. I don't think Zeke is an everyday player. Do they move Brantley to CF despite his defensive deficiencies and sign/trade for a corner OF? LaBusta will never be anything more than an AAAA guy, but I doubt they give up on him yet. Unless Santana moves to 1B and they pick up somebody to platoon with Marson. Should be an interesting offseason, but they need to make some moves if they want to be competitive next year, zero doubt about that.

Pitching wise, if Ubaldo-O can un[censored] himself, I think they're pretty set rotation-wise, but there's a looming problem at the back of the bullpen.

Having said all that. And mostly I agree. They are closer than I thought they'd be right now.

Presuming (and in the small market, we must always presume a bit) Chis is the real deal... and Kipnis, but, he's just an athlete, even if he gives us .260/15/75 and good at bats at second (and the D will come, he's on a steep curve) we're set at 2B-SS-3B. Or, at least there's a plan.

Rotation... is fine. Even if we get "OK" Ubaldo.

OF is a cluster. I'm not 100% sold on no Glass Joe Option. Hafner- who will still be around- is the only high paid player on the team. Sizemore's option is a 1 year commitment, they might do it. (Not agreeing with it, just sayin')

Now... as to Laporta. Yeah, bye. Been there, done that. I tried with all my might on this board to get him traded at the deadline. At any rate, we need another, better option. This gets back to Hafner though. We can't get a "flex" guy to play 1B/OF/DH (slashes being and/or in this case) because we have a DH. Same went for V. Martinez and goes for Santana (though, you don't look at him as the long term here, maybe, but, I tend to think he's in a Soph slump... look at him this way, if he keeps hitting like he has, he's just a usual shitty hitting catcher, so, while that could be upgraded, not a huge priority) Regardless... its all back to Pronk. Have to pay him, have to play him. So, 1B is a problem. (Josh Tomlin is hitting 1.000 this year, btw)

OF is weirder than you think... have to stick with Brantley. Have to Stick with Choo... Carrera... I think we need to see more of, really. But I tend to think you want him to be in the Austin Kearns slot. But, this is the best place to add othere than 1st... and I don't see an asnwer out there right now for 1B. I don't see us popping for Pujols or Fielder.

As to the back of the Pen. Everyone has that problem... every year.

Non Sequitor Add on... what if they did find a 1b who can rake and move labusta back to the OF. (I hesitate... even before that thought to think of the Defense situation overall... so, please indulge me outside of that... eh, nevermind I can't talk myself into it. BUt having siad that, I think they'll try one more year with him, both on the traded him for CC and the "late bloomer theory"-- he is 26, but, I don't know. I think we're stuck with him.

Look at it this way, a year without Austin Kearns or David Delucci is good year. (Fuck, I don't think LaBusta is as good as Ryan Garko... that's fucked up)

 

[NFBuck]

Rumors floating around that the Tribe has claimed Thome, not the chisox, and would have 48 hrs to work out a deal. Please let this happen.

 

[tsteele316]

Having said all that. And mostly I agree. They are closer than I thought they'd be right now.

Presuming (and in the small market, we must always presume a bit) Chis is the real deal... and Kipnis, but, he's just an athlete, even if he gives us .260/15/75 and good at bats at second (and the D will come, he's on a steep curve) we're set at 2B-SS-3B. Or, at least there's a plan.

Rotation... is fine. Even if we get "OK" Ubaldo.

OF is a cluster. I'm not 100% sold on no Glass Joe Option. Hafner- who will still be around- is the only high paid player on the team. Sizemore's option is a 1 year commitment, they might do it. (Not agreeing with it, just sayin')

Now... as to Laporta. Yeah, bye. Been there, done that. I tried with all my might on this board to get him traded at the deadline. At any rate, we need another, better option. This gets back to Hafner though. We can't get a "flex" guy to play 1B/OF/DH (slashes being and/or in this case) because we have a DH. Same went for V. Martinez and goes for Santana (though, you don't look at him as the long term here, maybe, but, I tend to think he's in a Soph slump... look at him this way, if he keeps hitting like he has, he's just a usual shitty hitting catcher, so, while that could be upgraded, not a huge priority) Regardless... its all back to Pronk. Have to pay him, have to play him. So, 1B is a problem. (Josh Tomlin is hitting 1.000 this year, btw)

OF is weirder than you think... have to stick with Brantley. Have to Stick with Choo... Carrera... I think we need to see more of, really. But I tend to think you want him to be in the Austin Kearns slot. But, this is the best place to add othere than 1st... and I don't see an asnwer out there right now for 1B. I don't see us popping for Pujols or Fielder.

As to the back of the Pen. Everyone has that problem... every year.

Non Sequitor Add on... what if they did find a 1b who can rake and move labusta back to the OF. (I hesitate... even before that thought to think of the Defense situation overall... so, please indulge me outside of that... eh, nevermind I can't talk myself into it. BUt having siad that, I think they'll try one more year with him, both on the traded him for CC and the "late bloomer theory"-- he is 26, but, I don't know. I think we're stuck with him.

Look at it this way, a year without Austin Kearns or David Delucci is good year. (Fuck, I don't think LaBusta is as good as Ryan Garko... that's fucked up)

the only thing I would not agree with is Santana. He has one of the top OPS for catchers in all of MLB. You can't simply look at his batting average as the sole metric. What he gives cleveland offensively is good for his position.

Cleveland desperately needs to find either a legit hitting 1B, or a LF that can mash.

 

[JCOSU86]

It's amazing that the worst offensive team in the AL, if not all of MLB, looks like the '27 Yankees against this team.

I held on for as long as I can, but I give up. This team is done. And they just don't seem to care. Acta and especially Perez (at least by reading their twitter accounts) just don't give a damn.

But steps were taken this year. They are slightly ahead of the plan.

 

[AKAK]

the only thing I would not agree with is Santana. He has one of the top OPS for catchers in all of MLB. You can't simply look at his batting average as the sole metric. What he gives cleveland offensively is good for his position.

Cleveland desperately needs to find either a legit hitting 1B, or a LF that can mash.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that at all, I guess my point was more to the fact that he's certainly not a liability at catcher offensively, and as you point out, he's a plus at catcher for the most part. He is not, however, a plus first baseman.

As to 1B and LF. Yes... both, please. But, of course, the answer is that we might get one if we're lucky and some retread waiting for another kid to come up. Eh, well, whatever. I'm not sure who that kid is going to be...

 

[tsteele316]

Yeah, I don't disagree with that at all, I guess my point was more to the fact that he's certainly not a liability at catcher offensively, and as you point out, he's a plus at catcher for the most part. He is not, however, a plus first baseman.

As to 1B and LF. Yes... both, please. But, of course, the answer is that we might get one if we're lucky and some retread waiting for another kid to come up. Eh, well, whatever. I'm not sure who that kid is going to be...

actually, santana would be about middle of the pack in terms of OPS for a 1st basemen, as opposed to laporta's OPS which is 100 points below league average. so, even marginal improvement offensively by santana would make him a +1B in terms of OPS.

 

[y0yoyoin]

i agree with pretty much everything everyone has said about what the indians need to do for this offseason...hafner and laporta need to go...hafner especially for what we are paying the guy...laporta could turn into a brandon phillips case where he goes elsewhere and then blossoms into the player everyone thought he would...so maybe its just playing in a cleveland uniform for that guy, who knows....chisenhall and kipnis are the future at 2nd and 3rd, and im going to say that Kipnis will be the overall better player lifetime then chiz...just hope both stay healthy...OF you keep brantley at LF, Choo at RF, maybe resign Fukudome to a 1 year deal and have him backup LF or RF and you go out and trade for a true CF...i still wish we would of traded for Pence...i would give the same deal we gave for ubaldo for Pence...because here is the list of FA that could play in our OF for 2012...Swisher, Josh Willingham, Juan Pierre, Carlos Beltran....that is literally it that i would consider, swisher and Beltran obviously being the main guy and Pierre is listed only because of how bad the FA's are for the outfield...We could still use a end of the rotation guy in case Carrasco blows up again...Perez i think may be on his way out of the closer role....sad because now we're back in the closer revolving door which we havent been able to get out of since like 2003....i would love to see us just make a push for Fielder and Pujols...pipe dream i know but i would love to see us go out and at least attempt to keep up with the big boys like chicago, new york and boston who are going to try and sign both

 

[NFBuck]

Pass on Beltran. He's old and is going to want superstar money. Any contract he would agree to would far outweigh the production you'd end up getting over it's length.

 

[AKAK]

actually, santana would be about middle of the pack in terms of OPS for a 1st basemen, as opposed to laporta's OPS which is 100 points below league average. so, even marginal improvement offensively by santana would make him a +1B in terms of OPS.

Well, once the marginal improvement happens, we can revisit the 1B situation, but, it's going to be harder to find a catcher to replace his production than leave him there and find a 1B. At any rate, this is still all Hafner's fault. (or the dude that gave him eleventy billion dollars)