Cleveland Browns (official thread of Masochism 2015)

[NFBuck]

I just want to throw out one more uniform potshot since they didn't provide the necessary entertainment draft-wise last night. Those jerseys are fucking HIDIOUS. I mean, like a notch above the Bucs for worst in the league, IMO.

 

[CFPBuckeye]

He better be better than Bitonio, cuz he was a 2nd rounder. I have higher expectations for a FIRST rounder. But I HATE this pick... he really is just Alex Mack insurance. Cuz you don't pick backup offensive lineman in the freaking first round!!!!!

I don't necessarily agree. I'd like to think the Browns actually got away with a steal of Bitonio in the second. Saying that Erving has to be better because he was taken in the first is like saying the Patriots expect Garoppolo to be better than Brady because they took him in the second round. The draft is and always has been a bit of a crapshoot but O-line is an area that the Browns have actually fared well with their early round picks (Thomas, Mack, Schwartz, Bitonio.) Erving is indeed an excellent insurance plan if Mack gets injured (we all saw how the line looked once Mack went down) or if he leaves after the season. But he is also much more. He was graded the #1 center prospect and #16 prospect overall. The Browns will look for him to play some guard in the meantime and I'll take as many highly graded prospects on the line as the Browns can get. Of course, Erving could also be a bust but that holds true for all draft picks.

 

[exhawg]

I would expect Erving to beat out Grecco and serve as insurance for Mack. The line wasn't bad last year until Mack got hurt so I understand the need to have a second guy that can play C at near the same level as Mack. I'm also 80% sure Mack will be gone after this season so this way you can let him walk knowing you have an experienced replacement. If you feel really good about Erving you could trade Mack before the season and get something for him.

If Erving isn't good enough to win one of the starting spots on the right side it was a dumb pick.

Unrelated note, I'm really looking forward to the defense next year. If Phil and Shelton can stay healthy the DL/pass rush should be much improved.

 

[Bucklion]

None of those should be surprising... Everyone talked up Landon Collins must have missed the Sugar bowl when he was getting trucked by WRs, tapping out... he's an in the box safety, you dont need those anymore.... also

Guess Rams dont like Tre Mason? Fisher is a mindfuck of a coach/gm

Gruden compounded that by saying the Rams havnt had anyone to run the rock since Bettis. Uhhhh...Steven Jackson was a beast on some really bad teams for like 8-9 years

 

[Bucklion]

So let's review:

No full retard to trade to draft a QB

No full retard to trade for a QB that didn't want to be here

No over drafting of a situational 4-3 DE with character issues that wouldn't have a real position

No overdrafting of a RB with either character and injury issues, or a million college carries

Our 2014 run defense bathed in Yeti spank, so they drafted a Samoan Badass who happens to be a smart kid that knows he's going to have to work hard

They over drafted a bit for an OL, but he will hopefully start at C next year if Mack leaves, or hopefully RG if he stays

Result: I can't believe this was a Brown's draft.

 

[BigWoof31]

Gruden compounded that by saying the Rams havnt had anyone to run the rock since Bettis. Uhhhh...Steven Jackson was a beast on some really bad teams for like 8-9 years

I think they love Trey Mason.
Your boy Todd McShay seems to think they took him here because they eventually want to release Zac Stacy. Let Gurley play behind Mason and Stacy and fully heal the ACL.
Eventually the back field will be 100% "GO DAWGS" and "WAR EAGLE"

 

[jlb1705]

Gruden compounded that by saying the Rams havnt had anyone to run the rock since Bettis. Uhhhh...Steven Jackson was a beast on some really bad teams for like 8-9 years

Marshall Faulk? Dude was probably sitting like 50 feet away, covering the same damn event.

 

[buckeyebri]

Looking down our noses at other teams' QBs in the BROWNS thread?

I'd have [Mark May] hot knives to have Philip Rivers in Cleveland for the last decade.

Ha ha very true, but since we didn't have a general draft thread it was the best place to add to the running draft commentary. I just get tired of year in and year out hearing the "Experts" talk about how he is one of the top QBs in the NFL when he hasn't won shit...

 

[Piney]

I don't necessarily agree. I'd like to think the Browns actually got away with a steal of Bitonio in the second. Saying that Erving has to be better because he was taken in the first is like saying the Patriots expect Garoppolo to be better than Brady because they took him in the second round. The draft is and always has been a bit of a crapshoot but O-line is an area that the Browns have actually fared well with their early round picks (Thomas, Mack, Schwartz, Bitonio.) Erving is indeed an excellent insurance plan if Mack gets injured (we all saw how the line looked once Mack went down) or if he leaves after the season. But he is also much more. He was graded the #1 center prospect and #16 prospect overall. The Browns will look for him to play some guard in the meantime and I'll take as many highly graded prospects on the line as the Browns can get. Of course, Erving could also be a bust but that holds true for all draft picks.

Or, it could be most good/great guards aren't picked in 1st round because not many are picked in the first round.

It is all about value, and positions. OT go in the 1st round because they are rare talents, Centers and guards are picked 2nd round and later mainly due to not needing as rare of talent of being a OT. That is what the draft has become, not about picking talent but getting VALUE for your talent. That is why RBs should not be drafted in the 1st round, they have short careers and people are moving away from running and passing more and has been proven you can get steals at RB all the time in the lower rounds.

Back to Erving... best case this guy is a RG right away? A guard in the top 20? I don't care if he was the top guard in the draft (oh wait, he wasn't, he was the best center) or if people thought he was the 16 best player in the draft. If a FB was thought to be one of the top 20 players in the draft... does he get drafted in the 1st round?

THAT is what upsets me most. We could have gotten a pass rusher right there... THAT is an elite position and hard to find talent. Instead he fell right into Pittsburgh's lap... or a WR.

So next season we are going to have a full offensive line with 3 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders... should be a great line. Too bad we don't have a QB who can throw, WRs to throw to, a TE that can block or catch. Don't mind that.

 

[tsteele316]

Or, it could be most good/great guards aren't picked in 1st round because not many are picked in the first round.

It is all about value, and positions. OT go in the 1st round because they are rare talents, Centers and guards are picked 2nd round and later mainly due to not needing as rare of talent of being a OT. That is what the draft has become, not about picking talent but getting VALUE for your talent. That is why RBs should not be drafted in the 1st round, they have short careers and people are moving away from running and passing more and has been proven you can get steals at RB all the time in the lower rounds.

Back to Erving... best case this guy is a RG right away? A guard in the top 20? I don't care if he was the top guard in the draft (oh wait, he wasn't, he was the best center) or if people thought he was the 16 best player in the draft. If a FB was thought to be one of the top 20 players in the draft... does he get drafted in the 1st round?

THAT is what upsets me most. We could have gotten a pass rusher right there... THAT is an elite position and hard to find talent. Instead he fell right into Pittsburgh's lap... or a WR.

So next season we are going to have a full offensive line with 3 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders... should be a great line. Too bad we don't have a QB who can throw, WRs to throw to, a TE that can block or catch. Don't mind that.

The Cam Erving pic was made looking beyond just next season.

 

[Piney]

The Cam Erving pic was made looking beyond just next season.

So might as well trade Alex Mack...

God damn... the Browns are so dysfunctional that they just KNOW they are going to lose a free agent because he is sick of all their shit. Might as well stop trying. Wait, let's just push him out the door by getting his replacement now instead of trying to win now to keep the guy.

 

[Buckeneye]

Still plenty of talent on the board to address WR, TE and OLB.

I'm happy thr Steelers got Dupree. Another one dimensional linebacker that will frustrate their coaching staff and fans after year 2.

So might as well trade Alex Mack...

God damn... the Browns are so dysfunctional that they just KNOW they are going to lose a free agent because he is sick of all their [Mark May]. Might as well stop trying. Wait, let's just push him out the door by getting his replacement now instead of trying to win now to keep the guy.

Yeah, has nothing to do with replacing what will be a 30+ center with a season ending injury under his belt that will also like to be paid as the top player at his position, which may rival some tackles money.

Dysfunction would be the Browns watching Mack walk next year, and still not drafting a lineman while pretending everything is ok. This eliminates a problem before it becomes a problem.

 

[LitlBuck]

I was almost afraid to open this thread today

I guess I am okay with the Browns picks. As everyone has stated they are not very sexy but they are solid football players. I have read where Greco lost quite a bit of weight to play in the ZBS last season so perhaps that is another reason they took Erving. While I agree that you usually do not take a OG or C in the first round, I would rather have them go with a solid pick send take a chance on a DE from Oregon @NFBuck

On Cleveland.com they have a second round mock and the writer has the Browns selecting the OLB/DE from UCLA which I would really like. Maybe they can also trade up into the latter stages of the second round since they have 2 fourth-round selections.

I found it interesting that Denver took Ray. When they took him my first thought was would he have been stopped this past Monday if he already was in Denver.

 

[CFPBuckeye]

Or, it could be most good/great guards aren't picked in 1st round because not many are picked in the first round.

It is all about value, and positions. OT go in the 1st round because they are rare talents, Centers and guards are picked 2nd round and later mainly due to not needing as rare of talent of being a OT. That is what the draft has become, not about picking talent but getting VALUE for your talent. That is why RBs should not be drafted in the 1st round, they have short careers and people are moving away from running and passing more and has been proven you can get steals at RB all the time in the lower rounds.

Back to Erving... best case this guy is a RG right away? A guard in the top 20? I don't care if he was the top guard in the draft (oh wait, he wasn't, he was the best center) or if people thought he was the 16 best player in the draft. If a FB was thought to be one of the top 20 players in the draft... does he get drafted in the 1st round?

THAT is what upsets me most. We could have gotten a pass rusher right there... THAT is an elite position and hard to find talent. Instead he fell right into Pittsburgh's lap... or a WR.

So next season we are going to have a full offensive line with 3 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders... should be a great line. Too bad we don't have a QB who can throw, WRs to throw to, a TE that can block or catch. Don't mind that.

To address your points, it has always been about getting value. Nothing has changed there. I don't care as much about the round or order they are drafted in as much as each guy becoming a solid starter, regardless of round. I don't want the seventh rounders playing like seventh rounders just because they were drafted in the seventh round. Otherwise, we could stop after round 4 or 5. The Browns valued Erving and he was considered a need due to the Mack situation. Mack also was a first rounder and I'm not sure anyone can complain about that given his productivity. If the Browns felt that Erving wouldn't be there when they picked next, then they had a decision to make.

As for pass rusher being an elite position, I agree, pass rushers are valuable. But if it is about value, then there wasn't a DE worth the pick either. A total of 3 DE went in the first round yesterday. 2 went in the top 10 and the third one, Ray, went to the Broncos after we picked at 19. That is the type of guy the Browns take in the past and get burned on. Then you have your OLB where a total of 2 were taken yesterday. Beasley went in the top 10 and then there is Dupree who many of us here have been skeptical on. It's all a matter of preference but it's just hard for me to say that I hate what they did with the pick.

A FB being top 20? Doesn't happen. If it did, then he'd be special and if the Browns needed FB, then okay, I wouldn't be angry. But nobody NEEDS FB like that.

Im fine with having a great line. Then, we can evaluate other positions like QB and WR. The QB gets killed without a line and the WR can't catch or do anything with the QB getting killed. The Browns can't build the entire team from one draft. There will be another one next year. It's about building a foundation and then fliling the remaining holes. This years draft isn't over either. Nothing says the Browns still can't fetch a WR. But again, if it's about value where you pick...Cooper and White were long gone before our first pick. When #12 rolled around, the most immediate concern for the Browns was stopping the run. It's easier to win games by not getting killed on the ground than just simply drafting Parker there would have helped. At #19, Parker was gone. Who else at WR was worth that pick? There's still 6 rounds to go and WR is overrated in relation to where they go most times aside from a Calvin Johnson or Larry Firzgerald. Sammy Watkins definitely wasn't worth where the Bills got him at. Plenty of gems can be found in the upcoming rounds. When was Antonio Brown drafted? Or Victor Cruz? Jordy Nelson? Demaryius Thomas was pick #22. Was Amari Cooper really worth the #4 pick? How about any WR the Raiders have taken in the top 10? Was Braylon Edwards worth the top 10 pick we used on him? How many WR went before Beckham Jr. last year? I hated the Browns ignoring WR in last years draft but partly because they blew their picks on a coke head and a CB, both of whom didn't seem to take things seriously. Had those picks worked, there would be less to complain about.

 

[Bucklion]

Or, it could be most good/great guards aren't picked in 1st round because not many are picked in the first round.

It is all about value, and positions. OT go in the 1st round because they are rare talents, Centers and guards are picked 2nd round and later mainly due to not needing as rare of talent of being a OT. That is what the draft has become, not about picking talent but getting VALUE for your talent. That is why RBs should not be drafted in the 1st round, they have short careers and people are moving away from running and passing more and has been proven you can get steals at RB all the time in the lower rounds.

Back to Erving... best case this guy is a RG right away? A guard in the top 20? I don't care if he was the top guard in the draft (oh wait, he wasn't, he was the best center) or if people thought he was the 16 best player in the draft. If a FB was thought to be one of the top 20 players in the draft... does he get drafted in the 1st round?

THAT is what upsets me most. We could have gotten a pass rusher right there... THAT is an elite position and hard to find talent. Instead he fell right into Pittsburgh's lap... or a WR.

So next season we are going to have a full offensive line with 3 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders... should be a great line. Too bad we don't have a QB who can throw, WRs to throw to, a TE that can block or catch. Don't mind that.

Was Alex Mack value? Because he was only taken a few picks later. I would argue that he was. How many colossal busts are situational pass rushers? We've had plenty. Wimbley, Sheard, Mingo...they either don't have talent or don't fit. Or both. I normally agree with you, and I do see what you are saying...but pass rushers are just as likely to turn out Mike Mamula. If they had taken Armistead, a lot of people would be saying how dumb they were. And as for WR, I would have been fine with Parker, but it seemed like a dropoff after that.